Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
#2
02-06-2008, 05:57 PM
RE: Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
The latest single fire ignitions use Ion sensing to determine where the crank is in the 720 degrees of rotation. This system is very sensitive to resistance in the ignition system. I would never advise changing anything in the coils/ignition wires/spark plugs on one of these motors. If you do not have a cam angle sensor but you do have a Crank angle sensor, you have Ion Sensing.
AW
AW
#4
02-07-2008, 07:32 AM
Road Master
RE: Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
ORIGINAL: hd74ci
Can you run metal core wire with a single fire ignition?[/align]
Can you run metal core wire with a single fire ignition?[/align]
#6
02-07-2008, 09:21 AM
Road Master
RE: Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
For you trouble shooters here, back when I first opened myrace car dyno tuning shop and stillthought I still knew it all, had a fuel injectedSpeed Visionrace car customer who had an intermittent misfire. Spent two days on that car before I found that he was running a metal core coil to distributor wire. All other plug wires were spirolcore, replaced that wire and solved problem. Learned to check for that first on computerized enginesfor such problems, one of the most difficult problems I ever had todiagnose.
#7
02-07-2008, 09:27 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
RE: Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
ORIGINAL: whittlebeast
The latest single fire ignitions use Ion sensing to determine where the crank is in the 720 degrees of rotation. This system is very sensitive to resistance in the ignition system. I would never advise changing anything in the coils/ignition wires/spark plugs on one of these motors. If you do not have a cam angle sensor but you do have a Crank angle sensor, you have Ion Sensing.
AW
The latest single fire ignitions use Ion sensing to determine where the crank is in the 720 degrees of rotation. This system is very sensitive to resistance in the ignition system. I would never advise changing anything in the coils/ignition wires/spark plugs on one of these motors. If you do not have a cam angle sensor but you do have a Crank angle sensor, you have Ion Sensing.
AW
Trending Topics
#8
02-07-2008, 11:06 AM
RE: Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
In all of the rest of the internal combustion engine world there is onlyfour ways for the ECU to figure where in the 720 degrees of engine rotation the motor is.
1) have a cam angle sensor the can tell where in the 360 degrees of cam rotation the cam is in and compare that to the timing on the missing tooth as it comes past the CAS(GM v-8s)
2) have a distrubutor to point the spark and just watch the CAS for timing (Honda cars in the 90s)
3) fire the ignition about every 360 degrees and dont worry about it (called waisted spark) but this is the real issue on carb farts on Harley.
4) use Ion sensing to watch the compression come up and figure it out that way.
I guess Harley could be watching the crank acceleration as the compression comes up but the programmers will tell you that watching this is sketchy as the battery gets low on charge.Theseare also a wobble fire motors and that adds a new twist to the possible math options.
My sportster manual has about one paragraph that mentions this in passing. It's where they are talking about single fire ignition. They don't elaborate much about it. I spent about ayear working with the programmers over at Megasquirt working with the wheel decoder section of the program reverse engineering the methods used on almost every motor that is out there.
If you what to really mess with your head, google Subaru wheel decoder Megasquirt
AW
1) have a cam angle sensor the can tell where in the 360 degrees of cam rotation the cam is in and compare that to the timing on the missing tooth as it comes past the CAS(GM v-8s)
2) have a distrubutor to point the spark and just watch the CAS for timing (Honda cars in the 90s)
3) fire the ignition about every 360 degrees and dont worry about it (called waisted spark) but this is the real issue on carb farts on Harley.
4) use Ion sensing to watch the compression come up and figure it out that way.
I guess Harley could be watching the crank acceleration as the compression comes up but the programmers will tell you that watching this is sketchy as the battery gets low on charge.Theseare also a wobble fire motors and that adds a new twist to the possible math options.
My sportster manual has about one paragraph that mentions this in passing. It's where they are talking about single fire ignition. They don't elaborate much about it. I spent about ayear working with the programmers over at Megasquirt working with the wheel decoder section of the program reverse engineering the methods used on almost every motor that is out there.
If you what to really mess with your head, google Subaru wheel decoder Megasquirt
AW
#9
02-07-2008, 01:07 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
RE: Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
ORIGINAL: whittlebeast
In all of the rest of the internal combustion engine world there is onlyfour ways for the ECU to figure where in the 720 degrees of engine rotation the motor is.
1) have a cam angle sensor the can tell where in the 360 degrees of cam rotation the cam is in and compare that to the timing on the missing tooth as it comes past the CAS(GM v-8s)
2) have a distrubutor to point the spark and just watch the CAS for timing (Honda cars in the 90s)
3) fire the ignition about every 360 degrees and dont worry about it (called waisted spark) but this is the real issue on carb farts on Harley. (Almost dead-on with this one.... 'cept it is an 80 vDC charge that acts as a sonar "Ping" to determin the amount of free ions in the exhaust gas'.... The 80 vDC is out of the secondary side of the coil.... only found on EFI bikes, as carb'd bikes have 3 pins in the coil, EFI have 4... Coils are not interchangeable.... Also why you never switch out Plug wires to an off brand, as this disrupts the ION sense, and triggers a "No Combustion Detected" code....
4) use Ion sensing to watch the compression come up and figure it out that way.
I guess Harley could be watching the crank acceleration as the compression comes up but the programmers will tell you that watching this is sketchy as the battery gets low on charge.Theseare also a wobble fire motors and that adds a new twist to the possible math options.
My sportster manual has about one paragraph that mentions this in passing. It's where they are talking about single fire ignition. They don't elaborate much about it. I spent about ayear working with the programmers over at Megasquirt working with the wheel decoder section of the program reverse engineering the methods used on almost every motor that is out there.
If you what to really mess with your head, google Subaru wheel decoder Megasquirt
AW
In all of the rest of the internal combustion engine world there is onlyfour ways for the ECU to figure where in the 720 degrees of engine rotation the motor is.
1) have a cam angle sensor the can tell where in the 360 degrees of cam rotation the cam is in and compare that to the timing on the missing tooth as it comes past the CAS(GM v-8s)
2) have a distrubutor to point the spark and just watch the CAS for timing (Honda cars in the 90s)
3) fire the ignition about every 360 degrees and dont worry about it (called waisted spark) but this is the real issue on carb farts on Harley. (Almost dead-on with this one.... 'cept it is an 80 vDC charge that acts as a sonar "Ping" to determin the amount of free ions in the exhaust gas'.... The 80 vDC is out of the secondary side of the coil.... only found on EFI bikes, as carb'd bikes have 3 pins in the coil, EFI have 4... Coils are not interchangeable.... Also why you never switch out Plug wires to an off brand, as this disrupts the ION sense, and triggers a "No Combustion Detected" code....
4) use Ion sensing to watch the compression come up and figure it out that way.
I guess Harley could be watching the crank acceleration as the compression comes up but the programmers will tell you that watching this is sketchy as the battery gets low on charge.Theseare also a wobble fire motors and that adds a new twist to the possible math options.
My sportster manual has about one paragraph that mentions this in passing. It's where they are talking about single fire ignition. They don't elaborate much about it. I spent about ayear working with the programmers over at Megasquirt working with the wheel decoder section of the program reverse engineering the methods used on almost every motor that is out there.
If you what to really mess with your head, google Subaru wheel decoder Megasquirt
AW
If you have a problem with it, talk to the Mod..... oh wait, that's me... Tell it to an ADMIN.....
#10
02-12-2008, 11:05 PM
Road Master
RE: Metal core vs. Spiro core plug wires
Just my personal bad experience with spirocore wires. Yes, they are low resistance and have
reduced RFI. Unfortunately, they do have high EMI (electromagnetic interference) and this
can be induced into the wiring from sensors, etc. to the ECU causing a variety of problems.
SE silicon wires are just $13 and are designed with the correct resistance to achieve a balanced
ignition without RFI / EMI problems. Just once in a while the factory gets it right.
reduced RFI. Unfortunately, they do have high EMI (electromagnetic interference) and this
can be induced into the wiring from sensors, etc. to the ECU causing a variety of problems.
SE silicon wires are just $13 and are designed with the correct resistance to achieve a balanced
ignition without RFI / EMI problems. Just once in a while the factory gets it right.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Delii Mon'Delii
Sportster Models
4
12-24-2016 11:31 AM
