I didn't intend to imply there were specifically VE* tables. But in the end, the tables each system has work together in similar ways to achieve the similar end result. That was the point I was suggesting.

Neither system has a "VE New" table but the DTT effectively has one with the BLM table. It's equivalent data, though (and not accessible for change by the user in either case anyway, right? Just informational?).

 

Here we go.
The Rinehart 2-1 is installed on the bike and has replaced the 07 SE Street Performance mufflers.
As far as the SERT map is concerned, I have slightly tweaked the canned map 159AE004 (which is specific for HDI models) to use as a starting map.
My guess is that the new exhaust is more "efficient" thus allowing more air to enter both front and rear cylinder. So more air is being processed by the engine, and more fuel is required. I did not want to modify the AFR table, especially the cells which allow closed loop (AFR=14.6). So I decided to make a few changes to the VE table. If my guess is correct, more air is entering so I should tell the ECM that VE is increased. In order to keep the target AFR value which is set for each cell, the ECM should now be providing more fuel. For both cylinders, I increase VE by 2% (small throttle opening and low rpm) and by 5% (wide throttle opening and high rpm). Cells with throttle opening and rpm figures in between, have been increased by 3% and 4%. This is because I expected the Riney to be more efficient especially at high loads.


Road test.
Compared to the previous setup (SE mufflers, canned map 159AE004) the bikes goes much faster at *any* rpm range. But I would not say it is perfectly tuned, in my opinion tuning was better in the previous setup. So I plugged my laptop in and started recording a ride session with Data Mode at 5 frames/s.

Data Mode is impressive!! It records so many parameters and allows a deep analysis of the engine while running.
I have two main concern for the results I got:

- Knock Control in the map was ENABLED. In the log file, Knock Retard is = 0 in ALL frames. Does this mean that the engine NEVER has to correct the spark timing? So, is the Spark Timing Table *perfect* for my setup? I can hardly believe this. I expect the new setup requires a different Spark Timing Table.
What am I missing?

- VE New. What I really wanted to analyse, is the VE New for front and rear cylinders. Surprise: VE figures for front cylinder are VERY different from rear cylinder. Particularly, front figures are generally MUCH LOWER than rear. Comparing to my VE table, I had to DECREASE most of VE front figures and INCREASE most of the VE rear figures.

I have modified the VE Table according to VE New figures recorded in the DAta Mode session. I will upload the new map and test on the road. Will keep you updated.

Cheers.

 

I admit being lazy and not re-reading the thread so I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not. The VE New values in the open-loop areas do not correlate in any way shape or form with what would be a better value to use there unless you've done what's in the last sentence in this post (in which case it's pointless to reset the VEs). They are merely the result of applying a factor to the already set value in the cell. The factor was derived from the offset from the set VE value with what was needed to get the desired O2 sensor voltage in whatever table cell in the closed-loop area where that offset last occurred. I don't know if that was clear enough. If not, ask me to try again.

Furthermore, that factor (the AFV) probably changes from cell-to-cell in the closed-loop area of the tables if those VE values are not perfectly set, so adjusting VE values haphazardly by the VE New indications in data mode could make things very much worse or perfect. You have absolutely no way of knowing without setting specific AFRs, putting the bike on a dyno, running it in each cell while measuring the exhaust gasses, and setting each VE accordingly.

 

ste71: The fact that you have not experienced knock activity doesn't mean the ignition timing is "perfect;" only that it is not so far advaced for the a/f that you are not experiencing knock. You can advance the timing in either cylinder in small increments then do data runs to see if there is a performance improvement or knock with the advanced timing. If there is a perfomance improvement without knock, you can increase the timing again in small increments and do another data run. If you see improvement in performance but also get some knock, you can add fuel where the knock is experienced and do another data run(keeping the timing the same)to see if the knock is eliminated while performance maintained, improved, or degraded. If performance remains the same and the knock is eliminated, try advancing the timing again, do a data run and check for performance improvement and knock.

Basically, you are bumping the timing till you see knock, adding fuel, doing a data run to confirm the knock is eliminated, and then advancing the timing again until knock is seen again, adding fuel, etc. At some point you will have maxed out performance via fuel and timing adjustments where there is knock but adding fuel or further timing doesn't improve performance. You can then stop, or go back to the last map with the knock activityand retard timing two or three degrees to eliminate the knock. Do a data run to confirm the knock has been eliminated without degrading performance.

It is essential that accurate VE tables be established with actual exhaust gas analysis; either on a dyno or with a Twin Scan II+ (that uses 02 sensors installed in the exhaust with the data recorded while the bike isridden).

I have no experience using the SERT with the '07 and later ECM.But what I described worked well when tuning my '04 EG with the SERT and Twin Scan II+. With those tools, the VE is established doing data runs with the TSII and importing those VE adjustments to the SERT map. After a major tuning session, I take the bike to a dyno and confirm the a/f. It may be important in a warranty or extended warranty dispute (or avoid one in the first place) with the MOCO or vendor of some partI have added, such as exhaust system.