I give up. You are seeing knock retard, not the adaptive knock retard. TTS or PV doesn't matter.

 

If you are seeing that with the adaptive knock retard zeroed out take out 1\3 of what you see just before it pulls the timing. Knock retard tends to overreact when pulling timing.

 

@Steve Cole Maybe you can clarify?

 

Yeah I don't really care either, I already helped the guy. Btw, there is no "adaptive knock retard" data in the PV logs, only knock retard. See my screenshot of a PV log.

IF there were an additional adaptive knock retard happening in the background, I would see lower numbers in the spark advance columns, but I don't. They match up perfectly with my spark tables except if there's knock retard present.

 

That's what I've been trying to get across about what you are seeing, knock retard, not adaptive knock retard. It's there, you just can't see it. The ecm stores it but doesn't show it.

 

tough crowd here, I missed you guys

yes they are *different* things, and they show differently in different log elements! :P

for the M8 ECU:

knock retard is a short lived event, ECU detects the knocking using the new piezo sensors and pull timing quickly, and then adds it back (also quickly, unless knocking is detected again then it keeps going up and down - not good). in a properly tuned engine it should be a short lived event that happens on hot days under acceleration only.

adaptive knock retard is a totally different beast. the ECU decides based on 'X number of knock events' (those described above) that you are running **** fuel and pulls up to X degrees or timing pretty much forever. you can see this on logs as a permanent difference between your spark advance table and the actual spark advance. those small tables is what controls it, and I run my bike with them zeroed out, because if there is a problem with my timing I'd rather adjust it on the main tables.

Gas here in brazil is crap everywhere, but in the US where you can easily get different 'grades' of gas this adaptive thing is a good idea - I just wish it would reset faster, in my experience it never 'unlearns' (perhaps it does after 50 key-on cycles like mentioned before, but thats like an eternity).

 

Thanks for clarifying. I don't see the point of adaptive retard and I'm going to disable it on my bike. I want to see if I'm getting consistent knocks so that I can make necessary adjustments. Even if you get a bad tank of gas, I don't see the need for long term retard because short term quickly takes care of it to prevent damage. I don't want one bad tank of gas affecting performance for a month or however long it takes to clear out the adaptive changes. Same reason I don't use adaptive control on the fuel side. If your tune is dialed in, you really only need short term tweaks.

 

Once you have your timing dialled in I would turn the adaptive back on. Knock retard overreacts. It may pull 6 when you only need 1. If the adaptive has learned that 1, knock retard won't pull any. If you are not using the adaptive on the fuel side does that mean you are running an open loop tune? The closed loop part of the tune keeps your actual afr's or lambda on your target values.

 

How do you know this?

Absolutely not, I use closed loop for short term trim, just no adaptive for long term. I don't see the point. I have my tune adjusted for where I live. Closed loop will take care of any minor day to day trim that is needed. I don't like that when adaptive is enabled it makes adjustments in areas of the map that I want to remain open loop, like idle.

 

But at least it's only for that key-on cycle, and it decays over time as I mentioned previously. You can control that in Retard Removal Percentage and Retard Removal Rate And you can also lower the maximum amount it can pull. That seems like sufficient knock protection to me.