Engine stalls when battery is disconnected
#21
You even might think that humanity doesn't have these phoocking idiots in the world..........such a nice thought huh?
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Dan89FLSTC (08-12-2023)
#22
hd uses a PMG
it is not an alternator since it has no field forcing capabilities. the only hd that had an alternator was the shovel and only a couple of years.
a PMG is fixed and output is in direct relation to rpm. that is why the engine stalled but if you look at the schematic you will find it is tied in before the battery and technically the engine does run off the PMG with the battery making up the short fall. on the PMG unlike the alternator, spikes are more reserved since it cannot go full on, the alternator will go full on since the regulator sees no feed back as to voltage level.
but there is one thing to consider with electronics as voltage goes down, amperage goes up so there is a possibility of damage.
do not rule out a bad connection or a bad contact in the starter solenoid and or relay.
jumping with a car battery and same issue points in a diff direction.
it is not an alternator since it has no field forcing capabilities. the only hd that had an alternator was the shovel and only a couple of years.
a PMG is fixed and output is in direct relation to rpm. that is why the engine stalled but if you look at the schematic you will find it is tied in before the battery and technically the engine does run off the PMG with the battery making up the short fall. on the PMG unlike the alternator, spikes are more reserved since it cannot go full on, the alternator will go full on since the regulator sees no feed back as to voltage level.
but there is one thing to consider with electronics as voltage goes down, amperage goes up so there is a possibility of damage.
do not rule out a bad connection or a bad contact in the starter solenoid and or relay.
jumping with a car battery and same issue points in a diff direction.
I think you may be thinking about 3 phase electrical systems where a load at 208vac will draw more amperage than the same load ran at 480vac.
#23
A 150,000-Volt transmission line carries current to a city.
150,000 volts was chosen as an efficient level to carry the power required by the community. A lower voltage would require a higher current in the transmission circuit, which means the cable that carries the current would be thicker, because the lower voltage must still meet the power requirements of the city. There is a limit to cable size due to weight and expense and other factors. A cable 1 foot in diameter is not practical.
We fall back to our equation. Power (watts) = Volts x Amps.
If we increase voltage, the current drops to meet the same power requirement.
At a substation, we raise or lower the voltage with transformers to meet the voltage and current requirements of the transmission or distribution line and the end user of the current.
With these two examples we can see how the power needs of a single device don’t change, but that power delivered in a combination of volts and amps can change significantly while still delivering the same amount of power. Raise the voltage, the current need drops. Lower the voltage and the current need increases.
If we got 20 people (our force) to push and pull the pallet (high volume) of bricks, we would get a lot of work done. Or a someone not very strong (less force) could push a single brick (low volume) and not do a lot of work. We don’t need a lot of power to move a brick, but we do need a lot of power to move a whole pallet of bricks.
The same is true with electricity.
150,000 volts was chosen as an efficient level to carry the power required by the community. A lower voltage would require a higher current in the transmission circuit, which means the cable that carries the current would be thicker, because the lower voltage must still meet the power requirements of the city. There is a limit to cable size due to weight and expense and other factors. A cable 1 foot in diameter is not practical.
We fall back to our equation. Power (watts) = Volts x Amps.
If we increase voltage, the current drops to meet the same power requirement.
At a substation, we raise or lower the voltage with transformers to meet the voltage and current requirements of the transmission or distribution line and the end user of the current.
With these two examples we can see how the power needs of a single device don’t change, but that power delivered in a combination of volts and amps can change significantly while still delivering the same amount of power. Raise the voltage, the current need drops. Lower the voltage and the current need increases.
If we got 20 people (our force) to push and pull the pallet (high volume) of bricks, we would get a lot of work done. Or a someone not very strong (less force) could push a single brick (low volume) and not do a lot of work. We don’t need a lot of power to move a brick, but we do need a lot of power to move a whole pallet of bricks.
The same is true with electricity.
#24
why do you not think that the PMG does not increase power as rpm increases?
the VR determines current via voltage level
the above is a o"scope of my sport. there is one important value the battery does and that is it acts as a huge capacitor which absorbs spikes and ac ripple.
the older mechanical regulators had to have both current and voltage coils and they were checks and balances on each other, why?? remember, the communtator changed the ac to a dc, yes, the generator was an ac machine and the brushes degree'd to swap polarity. some of that current was shuttled to ground but on semi-conductor VR, it just stops the current all together.
that dip is caused because of the hand-off of the magnetic flux. also remember, the average of a sine wave is zero.
Last edited by bustert; 08-13-2023 at 08:00 AM.
#25
Coming back to the OP's problem, if a car battery, even a mediocre car battery struggles to start your bike, then I suggest getting a look at your battery cable connections to the starter and the frame. Once they're good, and if a new bike battery won't easily make it turn over, then have a look at your starter solenoid and ultimately the starter motor itself. The service manual should lay out the troubleshooting for those components. Best of luck getting it fixed.
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propflux01 (08-17-2023)
#26
Coming back to the OP's problem, if a car battery, even a mediocre car battery struggles to start your bike, then I suggest getting a look at your battery cable connections to the starter and the frame. Once they're good, and if a new bike battery won't easily make it turn over, then have a look at your starter solenoid and ultimately the starter motor itself. The service manual should lay out the troubleshooting for those components. Best of luck getting it fixed.
Any recommendations for the battery? The one I took out is a Power Source Lightning Start Battery WPX20L-LS 01-352P, which I put in back in 2015.
Last edited by SofttailBob; 08-13-2023 at 04:09 PM. Reason: I put Since_1986 instead of Since_1968
#27
#28
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TwiZted Biker (08-17-2023)
#29
I'm still here! I looked through the service manual, and that is what prompted me to post the question. I was hoping there was a "known, standard" problem that I could look at first, before working my way through the steps Since_1968 mentioned. Hopefully a new battery will solve the problem. I didn't get one yet, too much other stuff going on in my life.
Any recommendations for the battery? The one I took out is a Power Source Lightning Start Battery WPX20L-LS 01-352P, which I put in back in 2015.
Any recommendations for the battery? The one I took out is a Power Source Lightning Start Battery WPX20L-LS 01-352P, which I put in back in 2015.
#30
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