Using terminology like the bold type is what I believe perpetuates the misconception about tuning devices, it's not changing the AFR it's adjusting the multipliers to change the pulse with of the injector based on feedback of the O2 sensors to target the programmed AFR table

This I agree with to a certain extent, "autotune" is a misleading term for a process used to adjust your VE and really is only a first step of a tuning process

can you elaborate on this?

 

wait until you can go to a bike show and watch them tune your bike on a dyno. These shops probably just down load a map and take your $800. Or if they let you watch them do the dyno at your local shop, then ok. Otherwise, be careful!

 

​​​​​​Wow! I don't even know where to start. So I won't. Besides, it looks like Fat11Lo has it under control dispelling yet another myth here.

QUOTE=DiamondYoda;21523403]wait until you can go to a bike show and watch them tune your bike on a dyno. These shops probably just down load a map and take your $800. Or if they let you watch them do the dyno at your local shop, then ok. Otherwise, be careful![/quote]
This doesn't even deserve a response.
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Then don't. Cuz you don't know what you are talking about 1/2 the time anyway.

 

I'm not the one who's engine ended up in pieces. Are you?
Must be your L33T tuning skills that are better than a competent tuner with a dyno, huh?
Or maybe the stock pump and plate that you say couldn't be better.

The Thundermax is great but you still need a tuner with a dyno or you're just guessing at some fine tuning that can make the difference between a good tune that runs good and an optimized tune that runs great and gets good mpg. Some people will just insist on spending money on a build then skimp on the part that makes it all work best to save a few hundred bucks.
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Never had a tune that's blown a motor up.

 

I don't ever think I've read or heard that Tmax won't benefit from running on a dyno.. One of the best things about tmax is that you can tune on a dyno if you have one.. Change AFR / timing on the fly.

 

My issue isn't with Thundermax, but the "autotune" myth. Thundermax has been a a capable tuner in the right hands and is very useful in boosted applications. I only have one experience using it and it does learn and when you apply the corrections the bike does improve. I used it on a Zipper's cam install and the corrections were not that drastic, wish I had more time to play with it. But I believe just as with any other tuning device you have to have a good starting map and you have to have developed enough knowledge to know when things are not right and stop instead of keep riding the bike. My biggest fear with this "autotune" marketing is that a person spends good money on engine mods believes the "autotune" is going to give them the same results as a dyno tune and goes out riding their bike and destroys their new parts thinking the "autotune" is going to fix their bike

 

The thing is you have to have some knowledge as to what a build required... Think about it, when there was nothing but carbureted bikes we threw together some parts and said **** I'm probably going to need at least this much jetting because I'm moving this much CFM and my RPM range has changed also.. oh yeah and I'm probably going to need a little less or a little more timing depending on what my spark plugs tell.. All right again you're going to need to have some knowledge and how to read them to get the proper adjustments just like anything in life...

I will go with the rule of thumb that there is no real auto tune.. It still requires user input..
The same can be said with tuning a bike on a dyno.. If the user input is negligible, so is the tune..