No comparison to a properly dyno tested and tuned in various conditions including using the dyno’s eddy brake to put the bike under various loads/rpms, and temps, prior to leaving for the track where ONLY tune trimming will be necessary. All fluid leaks, loose fasteners, exhaust leaks, clutch slippage, compensator clatter, tire rubbing, brake dragging, metal to metal vibration noise(s), etc, etc. HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED BEFORE THE BIKE LEAVES THE SHOP.
That said, there is always the dyno used to ie: identify a new build not putting out the expected power, maybe due to a sumping condition or chain too tight or loose that may never be caught by the rider/owner on the street.
From “bone stock” bikes to “fire breathers” and everything in between will always run smoother, more responsive, yet get good/better mileage on trips.
Simply put, IMO, there is absolutely no downside(s) to a proper dyno breakin and tune PRIOR to the bike going out and being ridden too rich here, too lean there causing hotter running especially in traffic situations.
Hoping this changes some dyno-hesitant sounding opinions.
Bob

 

Because you can get a bike that has been highly modified running pretty well with the TMax. Optimal, no. Optimal is a very good dyno tune by a tuner that knows what you ride like and how to get there, but I say if you plan on doing even more mods later you'll save a lot of money with the TMax because with a little experience you will be able to get it to run well with it and not have to pay a tuner every time you make a mod to get it to optimal. Once you finish mods, then take it to the dyno.

 

You can get it running "pretty well" with a canned map and a tuner and still have functionality of the map sensor using the stock ecm that you lose with the Thundermax.

 

I intended to answer your question about the TMax. I don't plan to argue with you over "what tuner works best". I choose the TMax over a standard tuner with a canned map for any highly modified ride because it has wide band sensors and can auto-tune within parameters to adjust on the fly.

 

One (perhaps stupid) question that comes to my mind:
Would a dyno tuned bike with a TMAX try to "retune" it's self because of the autotune feature?

 

A couple anecdotal stories.. Both are about 6 to 10 years old.

First was I met up with another group of guys out of Sacramento in Bakersfield. I live in San Diego county. We headed to Death Valley to mess around for a few days. One of the guys was named Jim Hutton. Both he and I had later Electra glides. He had a ultra and I had my 07 egc.. Both were about 10 to 1 cr 103 motors with ported heads. I was about 20 lb heavier than Jim but the EGC doesn't have all the hardware of an ultra. We figures the weights to be close.. Jims was making something like 110 hp/tq when he had it tuned with TTS .. Mine was making about 100 maybe more or less as I'd been changing things running a Tmax.. We got out on flat stretch and rolled on in second gear. My bike pulled away.. Bad enough he wouldn't do run it again.. He claimed it was pinging.. BTW when ever we did any riding together he'd get about 1-2 MPG better.

Second was with a guy named Rick Umstat, I seem to remember his bike was a 117 ci Later FXD that he had tuned in the bay area. It made like 130/132. I had my 2000 FXDX that was put on a dyno for measurement only. It made 124/128. It was not tuned other than by me seat of the pants on this current build.. Did do some dyno work with different heads early on but not on the current build. The trannies are different but the gearing worked out that his in second was slightly lower than mine. We did a few second gear roll-ons and halfway through 3rd. His bike could get about a foot jump on mine but by the end of second I was head by 2 -3 bike lengths. We swapped bikes and the distances stayed with the bikes not the riders.

I'm not dissing dynos. They get you close a lot faster than old school methods..

I've rented time on a dyno and depending on how much I spend before hand typically maps to how much HP the dyno finds.

 

It should make small AFR adjustments based on the current feedback from the wideband O2 sensors, similar to the way a stock late mldel ECM makes adjustments based on the feedback from the narrowband O2 sensors while riding in closed loop areas.

 

They don't autotune. They do do full time closed loop AFR sensing.. The Delphi systems do closed loop fast response tuning for AFRs close to stoichiometric when also BTW migrates into slower closed loop adjustments across the maps..

 

This does not lose any performance but does kill gas mileage slightly.

 

TMax adjusts fuel flow settings for the front and rear cylinders, within set allowable parameters, to get the sensor feedback to meet the AFR setting.
Yeah, I hate that they call it auto-tune, but unfortunately fast response closed loop wide-band AFR doesn't roll off the tongue and is not widely understood. I just like that as some parameters in the engine wear the "auto-tune" will try to keep the engine performing the same when things like a dirty air intake, piston deposits, ports getting dirty, and reversion issues (for the most part).