Dyno Tune or Thundermax?
#12
03-17-2023, 02:23 PM
Most likely due to the marketing behind the TMax product. They say install it and let it learn and you're good. The igntion timing is not addressed at all in the auto tuning with the TMax, which, to me, makes setting up the igintion on the dyno a must do thing in order to get everything out of the build.
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#13
03-17-2023, 03:47 PM
Most likely due to the marketing behind the TMax product. They say install it and let it learn and you're good. The igntion timing is not addressed at all in the auto tuning with the TMax, which, to me, makes setting up the igintion on the dyno a must do thing in order to get everything out of the build.
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#15
03-18-2023, 06:40 AM
Road Captain
#16
03-18-2023, 10:02 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Most likely due to the marketing behind the TMax product. They say install it and let it learn and you're good. The igntion timing is not addressed at all in the auto tuning with the TMax, which, to me, makes setting up the igintion on the dyno a must do thing in order to get everything out of the build.
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m
That's BS.. While tmax can get you close without a dyno. Probably closer performance wise and faster than with messing with autotunes on a speed density system, a dyno speeds the process up and can get closer to optimal performance.
Still dynos are only a tool.. Even motors that show more HP / TQ on a dyno than another bike on the same dyno will get smoked at the track by the other bike.. You can't race dynos..
#17
03-19-2023, 06:25 AM
That's BS.. While tmax can get you close without a dyno. Probably closer performance wise and faster than with messing with autotunes on a speed density system, a dyno speeds the process up and can get closer to optimal performance.
Still dynos are only a tool.. Even motors that show more HP / TQ on a dyno than another bike on the same dyno will get smoked at the track by the other bike.. You can't race dynos..
Still dynos are only a tool.. Even motors that show more HP / TQ on a dyno than another bike on the same dyno will get smoked at the track by the other bike.. You can't race dynos..
I agree about auto tunes. There is no such thing really. Nothing tunes itself automatically. Autotune is a catchy phrase.. Get a good base map and auto tune and no need for a dyno. It's a pipe dream many are sucked into and never know how much they are leaving on the table. Maybe a little maybe a lot. Maybe they don't really care.
#18
03-19-2023, 07:47 AM
Road Warrior
That said, each bike has variations, even OEM ones. The tunes installed in H-Ds aren't OPTIMIZED for every bike either, are they? Aftermarket has a lot of variables that could change the base, and I understand some of how thorough a manufacturer's testing can be. That said, I wonder if only looking at air/fuel ratios, which one might be "better optimized" for better performance, OEM or Tmax?
I removed timing from that equation because that is a huge factor in optimization, and I do feel that Tmax's timing tables are pretty "safe". Before you crawl all over me about how important proper timing is to a good tune, I agree. But again, would be interesting to study both H-D's and Tmax's timing tables. Only because I don't know H-D's timing. Never had the opportunity to study it closely.
What Tmax DOES do well is allow someone the ability to make changes to a variety of parameters to get their bike running well for them. With power comes responsibility, but the ability to make changes without having to buy time (again) on a roller is a huge selling point for me. New part? That'll be another $400!
Last edited by Tcrafty; 03-19-2023 at 07:50 AM.
#19
03-19-2023, 09:18 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
That is because of the human factor. Someone on the quickest bike will still lose in a race if he doesn't know how to race.
I agree about auto tunes. There is no such thing really. Nothing tunes itself automatically. Autotune is a catchy phrase.. Get a good base map and auto tune and no need for a dyno. It's a pipe dream many are sucked into and never know how much they are leaving on the table. Maybe a little maybe a lot. Maybe they don't really care.
I agree about auto tunes. There is no such thing really. Nothing tunes itself automatically. Autotune is a catchy phrase.. Get a good base map and auto tune and no need for a dyno. It's a pipe dream many are sucked into and never know how much they are leaving on the table. Maybe a little maybe a lot. Maybe they don't really care.
BTW, Have buds that race LSR. One thing they'll do is tune the bike near the salt flats and know that it will get them close. But then close only wins in horseshoes and hand grenades. They finish the tune on the flats.
#20
03-19-2023, 03:36 PM
That's possible but still not always true. Easy to test by swapping bikes.. I'm talking about 2 guys with same skill.. If you you think a dyno is the final word, you are smokin the good stuff. One thing you probably don't unstrand is that the most common dyno DJ250i is still a inertial dyno.. It's like taking the motor out of your HD and putting it into a 300 lb / 0 wind drag motorcycle. Tuning will be different.
BTW, Have buds that race LSR. One thing they'll do is tune the bike near the salt flats and know that it will get them close. But then close only wins in horseshoes and hand grenades. They finish the tune on the flats.
BTW, Have buds that race LSR. One thing they'll do is tune the bike near the salt flats and know that it will get them close. But then close only wins in horseshoes and hand grenades. They finish the tune on the flats.
I would say that a dyno tune is not NECESSARY for Tmax. I will agree that a dyno tune is NECESSARY for Tmax to OPTIMIZE the running of your bike. There IS a difference!
That said, each bike has variations, even OEM ones. The tunes installed in H-Ds aren't OPTIMIZED for every bike either, are they? Aftermarket has a lot of variables that could change the base, and I understand some of how thorough a manufacturer's testing can be. That said, I wonder if only looking at air/fuel ratios, which one might be "better optimized" for better performance, OEM or Tmax?
I removed timing from that equation because that is a huge factor in optimization, and I do feel that Tmax's timing tables are pretty "safe". Before you crawl all over me about how important proper timing is to a good tune, I agree. But again, would be interesting to study both H-D's and Tmax's timing tables. Only because I don't know H-D's timing. Never had the opportunity to study it closely.
What Tmax DOES do well is allow someone the ability to make changes to a variety of parameters to get their bike running well for them. With power comes responsibility, but the ability to make changes without having to buy time (again) on a roller is a huge selling point for me. New part? That'll be another $400!
That said, each bike has variations, even OEM ones. The tunes installed in H-Ds aren't OPTIMIZED for every bike either, are they? Aftermarket has a lot of variables that could change the base, and I understand some of how thorough a manufacturer's testing can be. That said, I wonder if only looking at air/fuel ratios, which one might be "better optimized" for better performance, OEM or Tmax?
I removed timing from that equation because that is a huge factor in optimization, and I do feel that Tmax's timing tables are pretty "safe". Before you crawl all over me about how important proper timing is to a good tune, I agree. But again, would be interesting to study both H-D's and Tmax's timing tables. Only because I don't know H-D's timing. Never had the opportunity to study it closely.
What Tmax DOES do well is allow someone the ability to make changes to a variety of parameters to get their bike running well for them. With power comes responsibility, but the ability to make changes without having to buy time (again) on a roller is a huge selling point for me. New part? That'll be another $400!
You could be leaving a lot on the table to be "safe" and not even know it without a dyno.
I have seen tweaking the timing only account for a 2 or 3hp increase or as much as 10 to 12hp. The point is you don't know.
Last edited by 60Gunner; 03-19-2023 at 04:14 PM.