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'03 Road King fuel pump ISSUE

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  #1  
Old 06-05-2022, 05:04 PM
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Default '03 Road King fuel pump ISSUE

My '03 Road King has a fuel pump problem. It started doing this recently. Only has 17K original miles, she's bone stock, except for Vance & Hines pipes, with an 88" twin cam, of course. Out for a ride recently, after stopping at a local watering hole, she restarted for the ride home, when the motor died after a half minute of running, as I was backing her out of the parking space. I could not hear the fuel pump whirring inside the tank. Had her hauled home and later, after several days, and many checks on relays and fuses, she started right up. I didn't do anything serious or change any relays or fuses, just removed and replaced them to check them, and that did it. But just to be careful, I bought a new fuel pump relay and had it with me for the future.
A week later, the same thing happened again. I replaced the relay, which had checked as working, with the new one, and the bike still did not start, with the fuel pump not coming on. Had her hauled back home again! The next day she started right up without any work or checks performed.
Yesterday, I rode her around and when I got back home I shut her off in the driveway, and later I tried to move her back into the garage but she wouldn't start again! No fuel pump noise, fuel pump not working. Each time this has happened, I tried switching the ignition switch and kill switch off and on repeatedly to try and overcome the issue, but to no avail. Each time this failure to start issue has happened, it seems to self-correct a day or several days later, but recurs all by itself.
I had switched off the kill switch as I usually do to cut the engine after a ride. When I tried to start her I heard a loud "ping" seeming to come from under the tank but it could have been anywhere on the right side. I just knew she wasn't going to start, and I was right. no fuel pump sound at all, and she won't start.
Any ideas? I'm thinking the loud "ping" is important, as well as the fact that it occurred as I turned on the kill switch. Each occurrence of this problem there is no voltage to the fuel pump relay. But it returns later all by itself.
Perplexing. Thanks for your advice in advance!
 
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Old 06-05-2022, 05:35 PM
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After lots of research on this excellent Forum I think I understand that the fuel pump relay is fed 12 volts from the "RUN" or kill switch on the RIGHT handlebar. It MAY also feed volts to the ignition coil or ECM too. Please confirm this. I'm checking the switch ASAP as I understand also that these little switches often fail. I also found out that the main ground wire from the battery to the frame is prone to corrosion. This bug causes lots of problems throughout the electrical systems on Harleys.
I await your comments and will post the results of my further investigations. I like this Forum and the wealth of service and maintenance information available here. Thanks! Rock ON!
 

Last edited by TheNeonGuy; 06-05-2022 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 06-05-2022, 05:37 PM
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Pull the crank position sensor (CPS) and check that before going into the tank. But do this first. The 17,000 miles should not have worn the brush out on the electric motor. The ignition on 2-3 second run comes from the timer in the system relay. Not the starter relay. However, they are the same and you can switch them. (They both have timers but only the fuel pump uses it)

The fuel pump has a 15 amp fuse. Are you sure yours actually has a fuel pump relay?

Once the engine is cranking and the CPS reads 3/4 turn or so, it knows the timing and grounds the fuel pump in the ECM, and then the fuel pump runs all the time. However, don't think that's your problem.

Keep in mind, that I can't see the condition of connections and such. Is your bike stored inside so electrical looks good or outside with something that looks like it's been in seawater?
 

Last edited by Jackie Paper; 06-05-2022 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 06-05-2022, 05:59 PM
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Thanks, Rip! Yeah my motorcycles are kept indoors and out of the elements. They are well maintained and cleaned, look great, like new. When doing routine maintenance I look for corrosion, loose electrical connections, wires rubbing, bad insulation, rust, etc. My Road King, especially, is pristine, like new. Original owner kept her in a climate controlled garage, so she really is clean. That's why I bought her!
From a baseline condition of no fuel pump sound, fuel pump not on, motor will crank and plugs get fire, but motor will not start, I proceeded to check the system out. When checking voltage on the fuel pump relay, at first there was none. After wiggling wires and cleaning connections with electrical contact spray, and changing out the relay and switching the ignition and kill switches on and off, I rechecked the relay and the volts were there. Then the motor started. After riding the Road King a time or two without issue, the problem then occurred again, as previously described.
Question: does the kill switch operate yet another relay that sends volts to the fuel pump relay? Or does it send control voltage directly to the fuel pump relay? I know of the fuel pump relay, the starter relay, brake light relay, and starter relay.
 

Last edited by TheNeonGuy; 06-05-2022 at 06:20 PM.
  #5  
Old 06-05-2022, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RIPSAW
Pull the crank position sensor (CPS) and check that before going into the tank. But do this first. The 17,000 miles should not have worn the brush out on the electric motor. The ignition on 2-3 second run comes from the timer in the system relay. Not the starter relay. However, they are the same and you can switch them. (They both have timers but only the fuel pump uses it)

The fuel pump has a 15 amp fuse. Are you sure yours actually has a fuel pump relay?

Once the engine is cranking and the CPS reads 3/4 turn or so, it knows the timing and grounds the fuel pump in the ECM, and then the fuel pump runs all the time. However, don't think that's your problem.

Keep in mind, that I can't see the condition of connections and such. Is your bike stored inside so electrical looks good or outside with something that looks like it's been in seawater?
Was working on posts and looking up stuff in the manual. So I changed stuff. Reread and then ask questions.

Bar on/off is just another break in the line that the ignition switch does. It just leaves lights on. I never use the bar switch.

Fuel Pump is controller first by timer and then engine cranking CPS reading to ECM control.

Be sure to add a signature line similar to mine on your year model and all the letters
 

Last edited by Jackie Paper; 06-05-2022 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 06-05-2022, 06:07 PM
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Also check inside the tank for bubbles coming from the fuel line. Not big bubbles, but just tiny ones. I had to replace the fuel line inside the tank on my '03 because it wears out rubbing against the tank or something like that. The pinholes in the fuel line in the tank are just enough so that it can't pressurize properly, and will only run intermittently.

The CPS is another thing to check too like RIpsaw said.
 
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Old 06-05-2022, 06:28 PM
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What use is the "RUN" or kill switch on the handlebar? I always wondered what the hell it's for. Seems like a lot of guys have problems with this little switch, and maybe we'd be better off just eliminating it. It gets a lot of vibration, like my arms and hands, out there on the end of my 16" apes, and I've seen lots of posts where it's failed or caused problems. It is fragile. With the key (ignition) switch right there in front of me on a big touring bike like my Road King, why have yet another link in an already complex chain of electrical wiring, relays and switches? I don't get it. Please enlighten me. Let me know if it's a good ideas to just bypass this switch.
 
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Old 06-05-2022, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TheNeonGuy
What use is the "RUN" or kill switch on the handlebar? I always wondered what the hell it's for. Seems like a lot of guys have problems with this little switch, and maybe we'd be better off just eliminating it. It gets a lot of vibration, like my arms and hands, out there on the end of my 16" apes, and I've seen lots of posts where it's failed or caused problems. It is fragile. With the key (ignition) switch right there in front of me on a big touring bike like my Road King, why have yet another link in an already complex chain of electrical wiring, relays and switches? I don't get it. Please enlighten me. Let me know if it's a good ideas to just bypass this switch.
It's there so you can kill the engine while keeping both hands on the handlebars during an emergency. Been that way forever. Think about an older motorcycle with a stuck throttle. Would you want to let go of the handlebars to fumble for the ignition switch?
 
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Old 06-05-2022, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TheNeonGuy
What use is the "RUN" or kill switch on the handlebar? I always wondered what the hell it's for. Seems like a lot of guys have problems with this little switch, and maybe we'd be better off just eliminating it. It gets a lot of vibration, like my arms and hands, out there on the end of my 16" apes, and I've seen lots of posts where it's failed or caused problems. It is fragile. With the key (ignition) switch right there in front of me on a big touring bike like my Road King, why have yet another link in an already complex chain of electrical wiring, relays and switches? I don't get it. Please enlighten me. Let me know if it's a good ideas to just bypass this switch.

It an emergency off. Probably outlived it's usefulness since if bike drops, the bank angle switch in the signal light/alarm box kills fuel pump.

Don't take it off. All it is is a on/off switch. Just leave it on. It won't break.

Treat it like the pressure relief valve on the water heater. Check it yearly.
 
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:57 AM
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Update: Rode the Road King around the neighborhood a few times, and seemed to have no problem until I stopped and shut off the motor. As usual, she started and ran fine for about ten seconds, then died and would not re-start. After a wait of over 8 hours, or overnight, the Road King's fuel pump came back on and the bike starts. Fuses and relays all checked AGAIN, all GOOD. Swapped them out repeatedly. The problem is definitely NOT a blown fuse or the bike wouldn't re-start later with virtually nothing having been done, except waiting.
This pattern has occurred now six times: A run of about ten miles is completed, the motor is shut off, and upon re-starting a few minutes later, the motor dies and will not re-start until at least 8 hours or overnight. Then it re-starts like nothing is wrong, but the sequence repeats again. Each time it is easy to confirm the fuel pump is not working, by simply listening to it. It's easy, of course, to hear it running or not, inside the fuel tank.

It's as though there is a "timer" effect. I ride the bike about ten miles or so, no problem. I shut off the motor, then, a few minutes later, I re-start the motor, and before I can get her in gear to ride, the motor dies. Attempts to re-start fail, and the fuel pump is confirmed to not be working. Relays are checked, swapped out, fuses are checked, all are good. Later, after about 8 hours, or overnight, the fuel pump returns to "normal" function, coming on with the ignition switch like it's supposed to, and the bike starts and runs. The cycle repeats itself, however. After a short ride, the bike starts again, but immediately dies, with the fuel pump not working again.

Is this an ECU issue?

I tried a jumper across the connections on the fuel pump relay, to be sure the fuel pump wiring is getting 12 volts. A test light indicates voltage is there, but the fuel pump still does not work. I'm going to re-test the fuel pump relay connections to be sure the voltage is there TO the fuel pump, and get back to you.

This is a 2003 Road King in mint condition with only 17K miles! Any ideas? Thanks in advance!
 

Last edited by TheNeonGuy; 06-08-2022 at 09:55 AM.


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