now THAT is an interesting value proposition.
I for one did not even know there was a 921 version.
went back to the dynojet site, seems that all the cals for 117" are 824, but if you check the ones for 114" they are 'updated' for 921.
stock timing maps for the 114 also look much better than what is on the 117/824 maps.

ok lets build a map over a 921 base and see how that goes then.

EDIT : 921 cal is 'simpler' than 824, which has a lot of 'alternate' things, and two etc tables. ETC table is very different from 114 to 117 (is cam different?), so I copied one from 117 over... with all the other changes i had already in place. 823 and 824 also have two throttle by wire tables which can be swapped at a certain gear, 921 has none of that (which is fine, but throttle by wire table on 921 is not as refined as in 824, looks more like the table on a twin cam, which jumps from 5% to 20%. oh well.)

 

I haven't tried it myself ...was hoping someone more knowledgeable could confirm or deny what 2deuceguy was saying, and I have a Softail not a Touring, but I did pull down the the stock improved 2019 Touring air/oil 114 from the Powervision tunes website to see how it compared to the Softail 114 air/oil 824.

I did remember to update my PV to the latest, and update the downloaded tune in WinPV which added in the IVO/IVC and other stuff, but as you say, the Throttle Blade Control (Alternate) and Torque Based ETC Table B tables are both missing from the 921.

I've no idea why there is a Torque Based ETC A and B, but in the Softail the TBC (Alternate) (which goes up to 5500 rpm rather than the plain TBC that stops at 2500) is always the active one because the transition gear setting is set at 7 ...which never happened.


BTW: unless I've got my tunes mixed up, the stock IVO/IVC for the 114 Softail 824 was 19/38, as is the stock improved download from Powervision, and the stock improved 114 Touring. However, because FM didn't have an 824 I managed to get Dynojet to send me a tune for the Andrews 462 cam I put in - it was set to 20/38. If the 117 is 20/38, maybe there is a different cam in there and that was what DJ sent me?

EDIT: Sorry, just realised yours is a Touring, you trying a 921 is maybe less of a leap of faith than me trying it

 

I don't know about 'knowledgeable' but afraid to experiment I am not. could never phuk an ECU in the 13 years I've been toying with them so I doubt this would be the first
the bike fired right up with the 921 calibration and since rain gave me a (short) break I could do a 15 minute autotune ride. nothing weird happened.
what I noticed right away is that VEnew reads a lot higher in this calibration. like 8% higher or more than in 824. Yes, I did change the displacement from 114.9 to 117.4. And also the IVCO thing to 20/38 like in the original 117 calibration (114 is 19/38 originally)
It might be related to it having different charge dillution #s. I liked the looks of the ones on the 114/921 cal better than my originals (where the rear is always 48 accross the board, that has to be wrong! - but all 117 maps look like that). So I kept them from the 114 map.
did the 'extrapolation' of the higher VE readings everywhere in the map, next step is a 'freeway' autotune to hit the highest RPMs then back to the timing.

About your dillemma, I'm pretty sure you are safe to load a 921 on your bike - just be wary of the possible difference on the VE readings. a quick autotune will show if that's the case or not.
First time I fired mine the O2s were reading waaaay low on idle... like rock bottom 0.08-ish.
So I noticed that something was off. Redid the AFR to be a better closed-loop (this new ECUs dont do closed loop well under 0.980 lambda like the twincam ones did), fired it again and quickly saw it go to a healty 0.8 volts, and the VE news were reading way higher even at idle... that's where I knew some auto-tuning would be required.

cheers!

PS: oh and by the way you can change that gear from 7 to something else and it will enable the 2 table usage. but you cannot put it back at 7, only 0-6 after that. higher gears than what you put will use the main table (more detailed, up to 3000 rpm) and lower ones will use the alternate. makes little sense to me, but thats what it does. I had it set as zero on 824, so the main table was used in all gears and the alternate just in neutral.

 

Gordon

You know better by now. HD updates software all the time and the M8's started with 721 and it's worked its way up to 824 on the touring models The 9xx software came out when they added Traction Control to the bikes and you have to run the Torque Control Mode to allow it to work. While you can run it (9xx) in a non Torque Control mode, the 824 is one of the best levels of software that HD has made for the M8 application. For the record they are up to 942 now in that series but it did not get a factory update above 824 for your 2018 - 2020 Softail. So if you cannot get to the same things in it, it's a Dynojet problem not the software level! I can swap them back and forth all day long and I would prefer to run the 824 level for a Softail unless its a 2021,

 

Thanks Steve, I should shouldn't I (blush)
...and now that you say the 921 came out for the traction control I have a horrible feeling you already told me that ...I blame old age mate, sorry (blush again).

Not to hijack b0fh's thread too much (sorry), thanks for your thoughts on the softail, and I do regret cheaping out and buying a license for what I already had instead of getting your box.

 

Well when you get to my age (67) there is an old saying that my dad always said to me that's fitting here.............. You only get what you pay for and if you buy cheap you will get cheap.

 

well... not to digress too much (and keep in mind that I have 'the box', married to my trusty 2013... a relic from older times where exchange rates did not ****-rape us down here too much)
buying a new 'box' : $450 + $50 (shipping) * 1.6 (tax on physical things) * 5.8 (exchange rate) = $4.640 brazilian money
powervision tune license : $170 on black friday sale, $0 shipping, $0 tax (government still not figured out a way to tax an email attachment) * 5.8 = $986 brazilian money

I like the mastertune a lot and think everything about it is better (except having to haul my big-*** laptop to the garage to program the bike) but the real life price difference is too much.

back on topic, finished autotuning the VEs on the 921, tomorrow if possible will go for a long ride and datalog to see what I get. If the 'retarded' events are gone, 921 is a keeper. its a shame that the 824 has this 'bug', at least in conjunction with the PV, as it indeed seems to be a lot more 'sophisticated' with the extra options and finer-grained tables. sigh.

 

As long as you all understand it's a PowerVision issue and NOT a HD issue with the software they provided, all you can do is to try and work around it.

 

January sales? or persuade my sister to buy me one over there

 

the saga continues...
put a nice tank of regular gas and off I went to record 15MB of log files
bike was running beautifully, no 'lazyness' when I got on the throttle, and the logs shown where the pings (or pre-pings as I've heard the M8 acts on them even before they happen due to the nice piezo sensors)... anyway, they happened mostly on front jug, 2250-3000 RPM and higher MAP readings (80-ish). some on lower RPM and 60-ish MAP. interestingly, exactly where some engineer decided it was a good idea to give the front cylinder 3 extra degrees over the rear.. d'oh
enough events to trigger the 'learning' thing (which was reset when I changed from 824 to 921... so that might be the trick to reset the 'bad history').
calibration already corrected, tomorrow we rinse & repeat.

thanks all for the valuable input. much appreciated.