bike so hot afraid to ride it
#41
06-10-2021, 09:10 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#42
06-12-2021, 11:17 AM
Pro user mode went bye bye quite some time ago with updates to the software. You must have an older tune. You could probably try updating it using the update with WinPV. Not sure it would matter tho. Normal mode is the same now as pro mode use to be. I don't even use that tuner and figured that out.
I use the SE Pro Super Tuner atm but if I were to replace it, it would be with the TTS Mastertune. Made by the same guy that was instrumental in the development of Harley's Deplhi EFI system in the first place. But I have the software for all 3 on my laptop.
No one can answer The rest of your questions with any degree of certainty. I haven't seen what your timing even is and no 2 bikes are exactly alike anyway. If you're running hot you need changes to more than just decel enleanment or decel timing. Plus or minus 5 doesn't mean **** without knowing what it's plus or minus 5 from and like I said, the decel enleanment table you posted is an exact copy of the one in the SE Pro Super Tuner for a stage 2 and I think the TTS as well.
And you're running a bastardized exhaust that FM isn't familair with so...
Your VE tables looked a little light as I recall but nothing that couldn't be remedied by auto tuning.
If you thought you could just plug a map in from FM and be done, you're wrong. It's a starting point only. You need to dyno tune or tune it on your own. Starting with the VE tables and actual timing tables.
You're at the mercy of FM if you're having issues with the base tune they sent you. I suggest you call or email them if that's the case. But it sounds to me like you just need to get down to business and start tuning your VE and timing tables. Don't worry about those decel tables til those are done first. You're getting ahead of yourself.
Good luck!
I use the SE Pro Super Tuner atm but if I were to replace it, it would be with the TTS Mastertune. Made by the same guy that was instrumental in the development of Harley's Deplhi EFI system in the first place. But I have the software for all 3 on my laptop.
No one can answer The rest of your questions with any degree of certainty. I haven't seen what your timing even is and no 2 bikes are exactly alike anyway. If you're running hot you need changes to more than just decel enleanment or decel timing. Plus or minus 5 doesn't mean **** without knowing what it's plus or minus 5 from and like I said, the decel enleanment table you posted is an exact copy of the one in the SE Pro Super Tuner for a stage 2 and I think the TTS as well.
And you're running a bastardized exhaust that FM isn't familair with so...
Your VE tables looked a little light as I recall but nothing that couldn't be remedied by auto tuning.
If you thought you could just plug a map in from FM and be done, you're wrong. It's a starting point only. You need to dyno tune or tune it on your own. Starting with the VE tables and actual timing tables.
You're at the mercy of FM if you're having issues with the base tune they sent you. I suggest you call or email them if that's the case. But it sounds to me like you just need to get down to business and start tuning your VE and timing tables. Don't worry about those decel tables til those are done first. You're getting ahead of yourself.
Good luck!
Last edited by 60Gunner; 06-12-2021 at 11:37 AM.
#43
06-13-2021, 09:50 AM
Guess you didn't like that answer. It was back in 2014 according to This thread.
This doesn't change the fact you need to "tune" your VE and timing tables. If you're running lean because your VE tables are off, it will cause the problems you're having. Same with the timing. Once these these are tuned for your bike, the decel enleanment will most likely be fine the way it is. There's a reason you're only allowed to change them to a certain degree. If it's not enough it means your VE and/or timing is off more than they should be.
Also, running more advance, as much as it'll take without detonation not only increases performance, by allowing more power with less throttle it also increases mpg and runs cooler because the charge is igniting at the proper time just before TDC.
But keep this in mind, knock retard has never worked correctly in WinPV either. If it's pulling a shitload of timing in areas like decel due to perceived knock detection, it should probably be ignored.
That was the case Here in this thread and as you can see from others' comments, it's always been an issue and afaik it's never been resolved or worked right.
Too retarded of timing will cause big heat issues and flat power and so will not enough fuel because of VE tables not being tuned. Both will also cause decel pop.
After your VE tables are within 2%, start adding advance 1° or 2° at a time starting in the top right corner of the tables. Work in sections. If you hear pinging or experience knock detection in a certain area, back off 2° in those and surrounding cells and move on.
When these are tuned FOR YOUR BIKE, your issues will most likely be fixed. If for some reason they're not totally resolved, THEN you can try tweaking the decel enleanment and other decel tables. But not until then.
No 2 bikes are the same, even with identical hardware. A lot variables go into what or how much advance it wants. I've seen some take as much as 17° more advance.
This is why plugging in a map from FM or anyone else and thinking it's all you need to do is flawed thinking.
One last bit advice, I'd be careful whose timing tables you start copying. You can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time running fkd up timing. What you got from FM should be in the ball park but most likely too conservative(retarded) and most likely needs more advance to solve your issues.
There's also a difference between tuning for the street and tuning for the track or dyno numbers.
This doesn't change the fact you need to "tune" your VE and timing tables. If you're running lean because your VE tables are off, it will cause the problems you're having. Same with the timing. Once these these are tuned for your bike, the decel enleanment will most likely be fine the way it is. There's a reason you're only allowed to change them to a certain degree. If it's not enough it means your VE and/or timing is off more than they should be.
Also, running more advance, as much as it'll take without detonation not only increases performance, by allowing more power with less throttle it also increases mpg and runs cooler because the charge is igniting at the proper time just before TDC.
But keep this in mind, knock retard has never worked correctly in WinPV either. If it's pulling a shitload of timing in areas like decel due to perceived knock detection, it should probably be ignored.
That was the case Here in this thread and as you can see from others' comments, it's always been an issue and afaik it's never been resolved or worked right.
Too retarded of timing will cause big heat issues and flat power and so will not enough fuel because of VE tables not being tuned. Both will also cause decel pop.
After your VE tables are within 2%, start adding advance 1° or 2° at a time starting in the top right corner of the tables. Work in sections. If you hear pinging or experience knock detection in a certain area, back off 2° in those and surrounding cells and move on.
When these are tuned FOR YOUR BIKE, your issues will most likely be fixed. If for some reason they're not totally resolved, THEN you can try tweaking the decel enleanment and other decel tables. But not until then.
No 2 bikes are the same, even with identical hardware. A lot variables go into what or how much advance it wants. I've seen some take as much as 17° more advance.
This is why plugging in a map from FM or anyone else and thinking it's all you need to do is flawed thinking.
One last bit advice, I'd be careful whose timing tables you start copying. You can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time running fkd up timing. What you got from FM should be in the ball park but most likely too conservative(retarded) and most likely needs more advance to solve your issues.
There's also a difference between tuning for the street and tuning for the track or dyno numbers.
Last edited by 60Gunner; 06-13-2021 at 10:01 AM.
#44
06-13-2021, 01:30 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#45
09-21-2021, 01:40 PM
Stage I
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Red exhaust pipe front cylinder
I have adjusted my maps myself and checked my spark plugs for proper timing marks and timing appears to be dead on from what I saw.I will of course check my logs tonight to determine any retard or advance knocking events. But I have noticed that when I am cruising at 85-95 my front pipe( vh2:2 long shots ) will glow red by the transmission. If I get out of it the temperature falls off and glowing stops. I don’t think it’s a lean condition as it’s running pretty fat after I adjusted the table myself. It’s at 12.8-13.4 in that rpm band. I do have a leaking rocker box gasket but I don’t see how that could cause the heat so far back in the pipe. Bad baffles ? They r 11 years old.
You can run a LOT more advance in the decel areas of the map. Especially higher rpm.
Those decel enleanment numbers are ripped straight out of the SE Pro Super Tuner software for SE exhaust on a stage 2 1690, btw.
I don't get any decel popping anywhere but my timing is considerably different than 98HRFB's too and I get the feeling you can't make the necessary adjustments without FM?
Are you not able to choose a different exhaust like say race exhaust or something?
Too retarded of timing causes heat and the charge is burning after it's in the exhaust. Your pipes will glow red.
Those decel enleanment numbers are ripped straight out of the SE Pro Super Tuner software for SE exhaust on a stage 2 1690, btw.
I don't get any decel popping anywhere but my timing is considerably different than 98HRFB's too and I get the feeling you can't make the necessary adjustments without FM?
Are you not able to choose a different exhaust like say race exhaust or something?
Too retarded of timing causes heat and the charge is burning after it's in the exhaust. Your pipes will glow red.
#46
09-22-2021, 05:49 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Originally Posted by 07heritageclass
I have adjusted my maps myself and checked my spark plugs for proper timing marks and timing appears to be dead on from what I saw.I will of course check my logs tonight to determine any retard or advance knocking events. But I have noticed that when I am cruising at 85-95 my front pipe( vh2:2 long shots ) will glow red by the transmission. If I get out of it the temperature falls off and glowing stops. I don’t think it’s a lean condition as it’s running pretty fat after I adjusted the table myself. It’s at 12.8-13.4 in that rpm band. I do have a leaking rocker box gasket but I don’t see how that could cause the heat so far back in the pipe. Bad baffles ? They r 11 years old.
#47
09-22-2021, 06:12 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#48
09-22-2021, 08:53 PM
I have adjusted my maps myself and checked my spark plugs for proper timing marks and timing appears to be dead on from what I saw.I will of course check my logs tonight to determine any retard or advance knocking events. But I have noticed that when I am cruising at 85-95 my front pipe( vh2:2 long shots ) will glow red by the transmission. If I get out of it the temperature falls off and glowing stops. I don’t think it’s a lean condition as it’s running pretty fat after I adjusted the table myself. It’s at 12.8-13.4 in that rpm band. I do have a leaking rocker box gasket but I don’t see how that could cause the heat so far back in the pipe. Bad baffles ? They r 11 years old.
I'm not a mechanic but, in my opinion, If your pipe Is GLOWING RED Then you either have an extremely lean condition, exceptionally bad timing or an internal mechanical problem. I.strongly suggest you dont drive it! I would trailer it to a shop and have a reputable mechanic who knows harleys look at it.
with respect
Jake
#49
09-22-2021, 09:06 PM
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Big Twi$t
Touring Models
79
06-09-2010 05:11 PM