yes there is... a shiny little badge. the patch of the biggest gang in the world.

 

I can respect your stand. And good on you for keeping that idea. The sketchiness I saw was that the 'management' didn't maintain that attitude. They put the most intimate moments of club life out for public consumption and public scrutiny. It puts members like yourself in a bind when you try to keep club business, club business; when management is flogging themselves in public for attention and broadcasting club business for every joe schmoe (myself included) to post an opinion about. If IO doesn't want people bagging on their club business then for lord's sake, don't make a public spectical out of your club that all but begs people to make it fodder.

 

For those who think they can make up rules for non-club-members to follow, and then kill to enforce them, the "space" they are given is an eight-by-eight cell.

Kinda funny, seeing who in this thread is whining about LE presence in Iron Order or any club. "O noez! You mean if we harass the squares, LE will harass us? When did this happen?"

Umm, about 1700 BCE, when Hammurabi created the first system of laws in history. Anybody who can't figure out that they can't kill people because of values they make up off the top of their heads, to suit their own whims, is about 3700 years out of date.

 

Hope you feel better. You do not understand and never will why LE presence in clubs is a problem. Go on being a happy citizen

 

I understand it perfectly clearly, of course; having LE presence hampers the organized-crime activities of such a club, and also for other clubs who may have dealings with that club. Obviously for a club that isn't a gang, like Iron Order, this doesn't pose a problem, so they're free to let it be known about themselves that they welcome LE.

What I, as a happy citizen, think is funny is the number of people who are stupid enough to advertise on a public medium where everybody can read it that LE presence does hamper their illegal activities. Hello? Internet! Duh!

 

I NEVER said had to do with anything illegal. Thats what you assume. Our rights are being taken away everyday and they are the ones condoning/ perpetuating/ and enforcing that. I do not like them whatsoever because each day I am less and less free as an American. The America that I, and many others like me fought for is being taken away from us. Dont be so close minded to think all that happens is illegal activities. Cops do those too. Take the blinders off and watch or read something other than what Gangland tells you.

 

>>We choose to mind our own buisness and we wear our colors everywhere..we are NOT a COP club...we do not back down and will not back down.<<

I always get into trouble talking about "generational" differences but the sea change in bikerdom over the last twenty years is what causes these mis-understandings. It always was/is that not all patcholders in the major clubs are out-n-out criminals and (today) not all patcholders in the cop clubs are, excuse the expression, choir boys. In the 1970s the club life was very well defined but now, after the influx of so many and it's hard to describe them, but I’ll say “hobby bikers,” have managed to seriously blur the lines. At least in their own minds, LOL. Of course many righteous guys had the unfortunate luck to come on-board during this period, but you know who you are, and this isn’t about you.

Sure, things change over time, but we humans have no institutional memory that spans generations to save us from making the same mistakes over and over again. But we have traditions passed along from the old to the young, and that’s an important part of everything. It’s what anchors all we do. It’s as important to the Clubs as it is to you Cops, and to Fireman, Elks, and Shriners.

However, and here comes the big but . . .

Sorry, but if you have cops in a club, it’s a cop club. And while you’ve got the spiel down, “we do not back down and will not back down,” it rings hollow when you can legally carry a firearm and back it up with a badge. I won’t go into instances where this has caused problems up to and including the loss of life over something as petty as knuckles flying in a bar. But in the biker life occasionally, no matter your status, no matter how big you are, no matter how righteous you are, things just aren’t going to go your way. And in those cases you'll take your lumps. But I know you guys aren’t willing to do that without escalating the situation into something else altogether. I can come up a loser in a scuffle but as long as I put up a good fight there’s absolutely no shame in it. You can’t do that because you’ll loose face in front of your fellow officers. And you’re a cop 24/7 just like I was active duty Marine 24/7.

I see you wearing that three piece patch and it invokes the idea of me buying an old Interceptor, putting a light bar on it, and driving around pretending I’m some kind of cop. So my bedrock thought on this is a very simple one, pick a freaking side! Your own chain of command has issues with what you guys are doing. Now I’m not saying cop clubs couldn't gain a measure of respectability, you could, it would just take about 20 years of leaving your guns and badges at home and living or dying on your wits like the majority of us do.

I know you’re thinking, some of us carry guns too. But you know what? Don’t be so quick to believe it. Sure, sometimes when something is definitely up, but you know who carries more than anyone. Take a look at any of the gun threads on this board. It’s the hobby bikers who are afraid to leave their homes without a weapon. Those are the truly dangerous ones being they are so given to overreact. In reality clubs today interact and support each other more than the public is led to believe. Clubs, except for a couple of well known exceptions, get along pretty well. They support each others runs, fund raisers, funerals, and whatnot and it’s all based on mutual respect. In the meantime on your day job you guys raid clubhouses, confiscate weapons, bikes, and make a bunch of nonsense arrests that get splashed all over the front pages and six months later all your noise results in zero convictions. But the straights like that initial flurry of action and you get the funding to buy more cop equipment.

In the end, like in everything else, these boards and some of statements made here bare little resemblance to any form of real life. Hobby bikers posting here like to fall back on, “I’ll do whatever I want.” But they are being delusional. You know it, I know it, and I think they actually know it too. But I can live with the lawyers, accountants, and dentists who like to play biker on the weekends. It’s because of them I don’t get hassled anywhere near as much as I did 20 years ago. At a stop light they pretty much look just like me. So they make good camouflage for the guys out there really taking care of business. But, cops pretending to be righteous bikers, sorry man, that’s a bridge too far . .

 

great post NickD. Respect

 

.......As for me, I wouldn't wear a patch that I wouldn't be ready to scrap over at the drop of a hat.

but that's just me.

Wearing a bottom rocker is just ASKING for trouble.

~Joe

 

Well said.. Moe Taters