Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
#21
03-24-2007 | 11:06 AM
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,735
Likes: 3
From: State College, PA
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
ORIGINAL: Jumpman
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
#22
03-24-2007 | 12:17 PM
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: maine
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
ORIGINAL: Canedog
Heres and idea:
I had a bad wreck once that was MY fault I went to a lawyer buddy of mine and he said to plea "NOLO" its not an admission of guilt. If you know you are going to face the music this don't look as bad on your record. The judge kinda looked strangely at me and dismissed my case. I got real lucky. I guess she was in a real good mood. I was in downtown Atlanta with a court room full of people and they seperated the folks ... guilty pleas on one side of the room and innocent on the other. I was the only fool pleaing NOLO. I guess she thought I was crazy.
So just try NOLO and you might get LUCKY!
Heres and idea:
I had a bad wreck once that was MY fault I went to a lawyer buddy of mine and he said to plea "NOLO" its not an admission of guilt. If you know you are going to face the music this don't look as bad on your record. The judge kinda looked strangely at me and dismissed my case. I got real lucky. I guess she was in a real good mood. I was in downtown Atlanta with a court room full of people and they seperated the folks ... guilty pleas on one side of the room and innocent on the other. I was the only fool pleaing NOLO. I guess she thought I was crazy.
So just try NOLO and you might get LUCKY!
#23
03-24-2007 | 12:48 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,449
Likes: 67
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
ORIGINAL: CRASH
Most of 'em get around it by having that nifty little disclaimer stating the helmets are "for novelty purposes only"...
ORIGINAL: Jumpman
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
He asked for local laws...so I gave the link and highlighted what he was looking for.
The helmet I normally wear is not DOT approved, and was bought knowing that it was for 'novelty purposes'. I am also well aware that if I get pulled-over, I risk getting a ticket for it.
- That having been said, if you wanna try to 'get out of some of the fines'...
Show-up looking respectable (I mentioned in another post look like you are going to a resturant that requires reservations - same situation here).
Show the judge the utmost respect - Call him"sir", speakonly when it's your turn,use propper grammer.
Show-up with a DOT approved helmet.
Explain that you were unaware of the DOT sticker requirement, and that you have (since getting the ticket) gotten a helmet that is legal.
Appologize for wasting the time of the court - don't give a 'sob story'
Ask for (very politely) 'the judges discression' to dismiss the fine, andfor whateverthe local equivalent to a warning is.
If you play it right - you may get out of there having only 'court costs' to pay.
Judges are people too, and they put a lot of focus on the 'respect' factor...The far majority of the people theyseelook like 'bums', and have thevocabulary of a 3rd-grader (no offense intended to anyone). If you are somewhat articulate,seem genuinely sorry, andcan show that you have taken steps to correct the violation - oftentimes they will be cool with you.
PS - if you have a ton of stuff on your driving record - all bets are off, and you're better-off just paying the damn thing & not wasting everybody's time.
#25
03-24-2007 | 01:02 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,670
Likes: 91
From: Billings,Mt.
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
How can you fight the ticket when you knowingly put that NON-DOT on top of your skull?If therewas no D.O.T. tag in the helmet then the cop was in the right.
Pay up and learn.
Pay up and learn.
#26
03-24-2007 | 01:07 PM
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,317
Likes: 11
From: Tucson, Az
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
ORIGINAL: Jumpman
Yep, I know.
He asked for local laws...so I gave the link and highlighted what he was looking for.
The helmet I normally wear is not DOT approved, and was bought knowing that it was for 'novelty purposes'. I am also well aware that if I get pulled-over, I risk getting a ticket for it.
- That having been said, if you wanna try to 'get out of some of the fines'...
Show-up looking respectable (I mentioned in another post look like you are going to a resturant that requires reservations - same situation here).
Show the judge the utmost respect - Call him"sir", speakonly when it's your turn,use propper grammer.
Show-up with a DOT approved helmet.
Explain that you were unaware of the DOT sticker requirement, and that you have (since getting the ticket) gotten a helmet that is legal.
Appologize for wasting the time of the court - don't give a 'sob story'
Ask for (very politely) 'the judges discression' to dismiss the fine, andfor whateverthe local equivalent to a warning is.
If you play it right - you may get out of there having only 'court costs' to pay.
Judges are people too, and they put a lot of focus on the 'respect' factor...The far majority of the people theyseelook like 'bums', and have thevocabulary of a 3rd-grader (no offense intended to anyone). If you are somewhat articulate,seem genuinely sorry, andcan show that you have taken steps to correct the violation - oftentimes they will be cool with you.
PS - if you have a ton of stuff on your driving record - all bets are off, and you're better-off just paying the damn thing & not wasting everybody's time.
ORIGINAL: CRASH
Most of 'em get around it by having that nifty little disclaimer stating the helmets are "for novelty purposes only"...
ORIGINAL: Jumpman
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
He asked for local laws...so I gave the link and highlighted what he was looking for.
The helmet I normally wear is not DOT approved, and was bought knowing that it was for 'novelty purposes'. I am also well aware that if I get pulled-over, I risk getting a ticket for it.
- That having been said, if you wanna try to 'get out of some of the fines'...
Show-up looking respectable (I mentioned in another post look like you are going to a resturant that requires reservations - same situation here).
Show the judge the utmost respect - Call him"sir", speakonly when it's your turn,use propper grammer.
Show-up with a DOT approved helmet.
Explain that you were unaware of the DOT sticker requirement, and that you have (since getting the ticket) gotten a helmet that is legal.
Appologize for wasting the time of the court - don't give a 'sob story'
Ask for (very politely) 'the judges discression' to dismiss the fine, andfor whateverthe local equivalent to a warning is.
If you play it right - you may get out of there having only 'court costs' to pay.
Judges are people too, and they put a lot of focus on the 'respect' factor...The far majority of the people theyseelook like 'bums', and have thevocabulary of a 3rd-grader (no offense intended to anyone). If you are somewhat articulate,seem genuinely sorry, andcan show that you have taken steps to correct the violation - oftentimes they will be cool with you.
PS - if you have a ton of stuff on your driving record - all bets are off, and you're better-off just paying the damn thing & not wasting everybody's time.
#27
03-24-2007 | 01:07 PM
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 759
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
I am afraid you are both right and wrong, you are correct in that there is no list of DOT approved helmets, but there are requirements for the DOT sticker. According to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration webpage (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ%20Site/pages/page3.html) helmets must meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 218, Motorcycle Helmets, and bear a symbol certifying such compliance. The labeling requirements are specified in FMVSS No. 218 and the symbol DOT on the helmet constitutes the manufacturer’s certification that the helmet conforms to the standard.
The California Motor Vehicle code section 27802 says “The regulations shall include, but are not limited to, the requirements imposed by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 218 (49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.218) and may include compliance with that federal standard by incorporation of its requirements by reference. Each helmet sold or offered for sale for use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles and motorized bicycles shall be conspicuously labeled in accordance with the federal standard which shall constitute the manufacturer's certification that the helmet conforms to the applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards.” I am not sure you can win this one sonce both the federal and state reulations require compliance with the FMVSS Standard 218.
The California Motor Vehicle code section 27802 says “The regulations shall include, but are not limited to, the requirements imposed by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 218 (49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.218) and may include compliance with that federal standard by incorporation of its requirements by reference. Each helmet sold or offered for sale for use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles and motorized bicycles shall be conspicuously labeled in accordance with the federal standard which shall constitute the manufacturer's certification that the helmet conforms to the applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards.” I am not sure you can win this one sonce both the federal and state reulations require compliance with the FMVSS Standard 218.
#28
03-24-2007 | 01:29 PM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 8
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
ORIGINAL: Jumpman
Dude,
YouREALLY need to learn how to search...
took me about 45 seconds to find this (just googled 'california vehicle codes'):
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/wa...ction=retrieve
Look at section 27802(b) - it states that non-approved helmets cannot be sold...so you could argue that you assumed it was an acceptable lid.
27802. (a) The department may adopt reasonable regulations
establishing specifications and standards for safety helmets offered
for sale, or sold, for use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles
and motorized bicycles as it determines are necessary for the safety
of those drivers and passengers. The regulations shall include, but
are not limited to, the requirements imposed by Federal Motor Vehicle
Safety Standard No. 218 (49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.218) and may include
compliance with that federal standard by incorporation of its
requirements by reference. Each helmet sold or offered for sale for
use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles and motorized bicycles
shall be conspicuously labeled in accordance with the federal
standard which shall constitute the manufacturer's certification that
the helmet conforms to the applicable federal motor vehicle safety
standards.
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
Dude,
YouREALLY need to learn how to search...
took me about 45 seconds to find this (just googled 'california vehicle codes'):
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/wa...ction=retrieve
Look at section 27802(b) - it states that non-approved helmets cannot be sold...so you could argue that you assumed it was an acceptable lid.
27802. (a) The department may adopt reasonable regulations
establishing specifications and standards for safety helmets offered
for sale, or sold, for use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles
and motorized bicycles as it determines are necessary for the safety
of those drivers and passengers. The regulations shall include, but
are not limited to, the requirements imposed by Federal Motor Vehicle
Safety Standard No. 218 (49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.218) and may include
compliance with that federal standard by incorporation of its
requirements by reference. Each helmet sold or offered for sale for
use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles and motorized bicycles
shall be conspicuously labeled in accordance with the federal
standard which shall constitute the manufacturer's certification that
the helmet conforms to the applicable federal motor vehicle safety
standards.
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
Sorry, buddy, I don't mean to sound cold, but ... I can't say I have any sympathy if you get busted for wearing a nonregulated helmet. Yougambledknowing full wellwhat you were doing... you lost. Good luck with that. If you ever find that loop hole as a defence, you could probably sell your idea on ebay! This issue has been an ongoing war between the lawmakers and the no helmet advocates for years.
#29
03-24-2007 | 01:39 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,641
Likes: 24
From: Ozark Country
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
ORIGINAL: bikergirl40
If this is so, then how is it possible that every motorycylce rally and dealership sells novelty helmets ... Because it is so common to see,I always had the understanding that if they posted a sign sayingthese helmets werenovelty, it was ok to offer them for sale.
ORIGINAL: Jumpman
Dude,
YouREALLY need to learn how to search...
took me about 45 seconds to find this (just googled 'california vehicle codes'):
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/wa...ction=retrieve
Look at section 27802(b) - it states that non-approved helmets cannot be sold...so you could argue that you assumed it was an acceptable lid.
27802. (a) The department may adopt reasonable regulations
establishing specifications and standards for safety helmets offered
for sale, or sold, for use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles
and motorized bicycles as it determines are necessary for the safety
of those drivers and passengers. The regulations shall include, but
are not limited to, the requirements imposed by Federal Motor Vehicle
Safety Standard No. 218 (49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.218) and may include
compliance with that federal standard by incorporation of its
requirements by reference. Each helmet sold or offered for sale for
use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles and motorized bicycles
shall be conspicuously labeled in accordance with the federal
standard which shall constitute the manufacturer's certification that
the helmet conforms to the applicable federal motor vehicle safety
standards.
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
Dude,
YouREALLY need to learn how to search...
took me about 45 seconds to find this (just googled 'california vehicle codes'):
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/wa...ction=retrieve
Look at section 27802(b) - it states that non-approved helmets cannot be sold...so you could argue that you assumed it was an acceptable lid.
27802. (a) The department may adopt reasonable regulations
establishing specifications and standards for safety helmets offered
for sale, or sold, for use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles
and motorized bicycles as it determines are necessary for the safety
of those drivers and passengers. The regulations shall include, but
are not limited to, the requirements imposed by Federal Motor Vehicle
Safety Standard No. 218 (49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.218) and may include
compliance with that federal standard by incorporation of its
requirements by reference. Each helmet sold or offered for sale for
use by drivers and passengers of motorcycles and motorized bicycles
shall be conspicuously labeled in accordance with the federal
standard which shall constitute the manufacturer's certification that
the helmet conforms to the applicable federal motor vehicle safety
standards.
(b) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, for use by a driver
or passenger of a motorcycle or motorized bicycle any safety helmet
which is not of a type meeting requirements established by the
department.
The seller offers the novelty helmets for sale (for novelty purposes), and assumes the buyer will not use them on the highway for protection in place of a DOT approved helmet.
In the same token, the buyer of a novelty helmet should know (let's not kid ourselves) that the helmet is not DOT approved, and should not be used for actual protection.
#30
03-24-2007 | 01:43 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,066
Likes: 1,297
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Need ammo for non dot helmet ticket...
I have read of a dude in Cali that regularly beats the tickets 'cause of the way the law is written. But he has a good lawyer, I reckon. The article was a couple years old, so things might've changed.