I didn't know ultima, rev-tech, etc. were doing twin-cams yet....all the ones I see are evo motors.

S&S builds a Twin cam

With a Twin cam, the thing to ensure is that you get the Timken main bearing upgrade, bore out the cylinder holes in the cases, use Torrington style cam bearings, clearance the cam chest, and use gear driven cams, with an S&S reed valve for oil blowby. The rest is just like an evo, in that, you want forged wheels, rods, pistons, and you want the cylinders to be bored on a flex plate. Also want to go with an upgraded fuel pump setup. I recommend the Fueling fuel pump and cam plate, to help with torsional flex. Stock cam plates tend to flex, and leak oil.[&:] The stock heads can be CNC ported or hand ported, but ensure you use top-quality valve stem seals, and don't go overkill on the valvesprings...only strong enough for the cam being used, otherwise causes premature wear. Avoid the urge to get carried away with a long stroke motor. The pistons speed goes way up, and that causes alot of excess wear and tear. If you can't get a stock stroke, fully built 98 to run hard, then you missed the boat on cam selection vs. compression, or the head porting was fouled up! Stock stroke motors are more reliable than a stroker, and can build the power numbers as well!

A built TC is the BEST Harley-Davidson motor you can have,.............. IMHO....

Joe

 

With all due respect, don't listen to this guy unless you are really planning to build a 1/4 mile bike....The stock oil pump was designed by Mr. Fueling and works just fine, especially when you add the pressure spring that is in your quote...and the stock cam plate is perfect the way it is. As a matter of fact, many members on Harley tech talk that bought into the 'billet' cam plate idea found that the hole alignment on the stock cam plates was better than that of the aftermarket units, which lends itself to quieter gear cam operation. And if Traveler knew what he was talking about, he'd know that S&S and Fueling both advise NOT to use the reed valve with the fueling oil pumps. You don't need to bore your cases unless you are planning to go bigger than 98"...and if you go bigger than that, you better have the Timken crank bearing installed or you'll likely tear out the bottom end bearings. The quote you got from the dealer looks way out of line on prices too. I know you can buy those SE pro heads for around $550.00 at many places.[in silver]

Having been through all of this stuff you are looking to go through, I would advise you to look at a slightly lower compression setup. You just never know what kind of gas you are going to get, and I would not build a 'street' motor over 10 to 1 compression if I were to do it again [I'm running 10.6]. You can get almost every bit of power from a lower compression build with the proper cam selection. Another thing you may not like about your proposed build is the Woods TW-6HG has a reputation for being VERY noisy and hard on the valve train. It builds power like nobody's business, and hits VERY hard on the bottom end, but there is a definite price to pay in valve train wear....Not great when you are running with the slightly weaker bottom end that HD started specking in 03 and up models either.

Woods cams are also one of the most expensive you can buy...I have no doubt your builder will make a strong motor for you, but he's definitely looking to make A LOT of extra money as well.

Talk to him about building something a bit more 'streetable' with a combination of components like:

Rehoned stock cylinders.....should be around $100.00 for the boring
CAST flat top pistons.........about $120.00
Andrews TW-31G cams........about $600.00 with gears [another good option is the S&S 570 for

 

BTW...the build I outlined above [95"] will yield around 100/100 with a good tuning....usually in the range of 98hp and 104#tq.

 

Thanks for the info SeaHag and everybody else for that matter. I'm going to sit down with the tuner and see what we can work out. He's a good guy and comes highly recommended.

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: SeaHag

With all due respect, don't listen to this guy unless you are really planning to build a 1/4 mile bike....The stock oil pump was designed by Mr. Fueling and works just fine, especially when you add the pressure spring that is in your quote...and the stock cam plate is perfect the way it is. As a matter of fact, many members on Harley tech talk that bought into the 'billet' cam plate idea found that the hole alignment on the stock cam plates was better than that of the aftermarket units, which lends itself to quieter gear cam operation. And if Traveler knew what he was talking about, he'd know that S&S and Fueling both advise NOT to use the reed valve with the fueling oil pumps. You don't need to bore your cases unless you are planning to go bigger than 98"...and if you go bigger than that, you better have the Timken crank bearing installed or you'll likely tear out the bottom end bearings. The quote you got from the dealer looks way out of line on prices too. I know you can buy those SE pro heads for around $550.00 at many places.[in silver]

Having been through all of this stuff you are looking to go through, I would advise you to look at a slightly lower compression setup. You just never know what kind of gas you are going to get, and I would not build a 'street' motor over 10 to 1 compression if I were to do it again [I'm running 10.6]. You can get almost every bit of power from a lower compression build with the proper cam selection. Another thing you may not like about your proposed build is the Woods TW-6HG has a reputation for being VERY noisy and hard on the valve train. It builds power like nobody's business, and hits VERY hard on the bottom end, but there is a definite price to pay in valve train wear....Not great when you are running with the slightly weaker bottom end that HD started specking in 03 and up models either.

Woods cams are also one of the most expensive you can buy...I have no doubt your builder will make a strong motor for you, but he's definitely looking to make A LOT of extra money as well.

Talk to him about building something a bit more 'streetable' with a combination of components like:

Rehoned stock cylinders.....should be around $100.00 for the boring
CAST flat top pistons.........about $120.00
Andrews TW-31G cams........about $600.00 with gears [another good option is the S&S 570 for

 

SEaHag Is saying alot of truth here.

I bought most of the same stuff your looking ata year and a half ago thinking that it was the way to go, Thankfully I found Head-Quarters and It saved my alot of hassels.

It hurt abit to sell off all the crap that I had collected, but it was worth it.

I was at my Indys shop on Saturday last weekend, He had a 05 RK in there that his personal friend had just bought.


It had a full SE hi compression BB kit on it with SE 257 cams. it sounded totaly sinister, but when the bike got hot it pinged........bad.

It may just have a crappy timming map in it, Its injected. But the package may have issues too!

10.1 comp is the safest bet if your going to ride alot, here in Cali the best gas is 91 oct. and its like **** in the summer, so moderate compression and the right timming curve is very important to having a trouble free bike!

This is why i recomeded getting a full H-Q package, It will have a ignition to match you bike and the gas you will be mostly using. and you will get the compression that you ask for. it will be matched to a dual patern cam profile to match your compressionto give you thepower band you want.

this is very important!

You will not get the compression you want buying and using anything out of the box period.

SE heads are way off of what they say the are and they cannot be corrected to fix anything and almost no head shops will touch them!

cylinder heads must be CCed and milled to get the right compression and the right head gasket and piston deck height must be matched and calculated into the formula to get it right.

Do your home work!

Dont be affaid to call a few shops an talk to them and let them try to explain what the do and why. heres my list of shops I called, and how many times!

Big Boys heads: 3 times
Bill the Hammer, Hammer Heads: 1
Jerry Branch: 3 times
Deweys head porting: 1
Ebay porting shop In Detroit: 1
Head-Quarters: 2 (found my guy)!

 

About the only thing you've done that I haven't is switched out to the 3.37 primary drive ratio. The stock 3.15 works fine for me, now that I've added 40hp to the stock motor, and I can use all the gas mileage I can get while on tour.

I figured it out once and I have $3800.00 into my motor even though I turn all my own wrenches [thank god for winter down time or nothing would ever get done[8D]]...I know now, that I could have similar results and saved myself probably $1000.00 so I try to help those who haven't been there yet save a little money.

 

Head Quarters stuff cost quite a bit of money; but I've NEVER heard anyone who bought HQ stuff complain about the price once they got to ride it. HQ stuff is VERY popular over on Harley Tech Talk, for their quality and performance. If you've got the money, by all means go for it. If not, a good mechanic, who's not out to line his pockets as much as he is to serve his customers NEEDS, can help you get the most bang for your bucks.

A key factor is to have parts that work well together. Ideally, you pick the compression and the motor size [95/98/103"], then you pick a cam that will work well with that compression, then tell your head porter what size motor and cam you are running and they will set up the heads with the 'right' sized valves to maintain maximum VELOCITY without restricting FLOW and CC the chambers till they are the correct size to give you desired static compression ratio in BOTH cylinders. Now get a good exhaust [not drag pipes] and have it tuned by a competent dyno tuner.

TUNING IS HUGE!! Don't forget to budget about $400.00 for the tune if you REALLY want to get your money's worth out of everything else. My buddy's RoadGlide gained 20# of torque and 16 horse power after tuning his SE HTCC 95" build....unfortunately, those HD 'reflashes' leave a lot on the table.

 

It seems expencive, but if you only have to buy it once then you money ahead!

 

Just have to ask yourself...how much do you need? How much reliability are you willing to sacrifice to get there. There is no free lunch.....those 131 Twin Cam motors, are NOT 100,000 mile touring motors.....

Joe