Help with decel pop
#51
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Red Banks, Mississippi
Posts: 17,727
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Sure wish you guys would figure this out, I don't want to be a ginni pig.
It's not that I mind the popping, I just don't like the coughing.
I'm stunned by the dealer response to this issue, brand new bike and they want everyone to by a $500. mapping key to make the bike run correctly.
It's not that I mind the popping, I just don't like the coughing.
I'm stunned by the dealer response to this issue, brand new bike and they want everyone to by a $500. mapping key to make the bike run correctly.
It is simple physics.
Coughing is from being too lean and should be tuned out asap (assuming no intake leaks).
Decel popping is unburnt fuel being burned in the exhaust. This does NOT damage the engine, but a growing % of HD riders don't like the sound.
Changing the AFR in the exhaust will reduce/eliminate decel pop. There are a variety of ways to do this that have been listed above.
Last edited by DK Custom; 08-07-2013 at 08:42 PM.
#52
I experienced the same. I have mine all the way rich.It acts like the bike learns they are there and compensates. My bike runs good and gets high 40's,temp a bit over 200. I wear ear plugs.the hell with it.
#53
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Red Banks, Mississippi
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Below is a brief article I put together on how the current HD EFI works in relation to adaptive learning.
There are two ways the Electronic Control Module (ECM) adapts:
First, let's look at what input the ECM receives, so we know what it has to work with to make any "Adaptive" changes-
1. CKP - (Crankshaft Position Sensor): Basically this sensor monitors the crankshaft speed and position. The ECM uses the inputs from the sensor to determine what stroke the engine is in so it can deliver the fuel and spark at the desired time...
2. MAP - (Manifold Absolute Pressure): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much air is entering the engine.
3. IAT - (Intake Air Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much oxygen exists in a particular volume of air..
4. ET - (Engine Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to determine engine temperature...
5. TP - (Throttle Position): Provides input to the ECM as it reacts to throttle shaft rotation... These signals indicate throttle position, if the throttle is opening or closing and how fast it is opening and closing...
6. VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor): Provides input signals to the ECM to indicate the speed of the motorcycle...
7. BAS (Bank Angle Sensor): If the motorcycle leans over more than 45 degree's from vertical... If the ECM receives this input for more than one second it assumes the motorcycle has fallen over and shuts down the fuel management and ignition circuit...
8. O2 Sensor: The are switching type sensors (stock HD's are narrow band sensors used in closed loop systems) they provide inputs to the ECM based on the amount of oxygen is being sent in the exhaust system...
9. ISS (Ion Sensing System): It detects detonation or engine misfire in either the front or rear cylinder by monitoring the electrical energy at the spark plug following every time spark...If an abnormal level of energy is detected across two or three spark firings the ECM responds by retarding the spark timing in the affected cylinder as needed to eliminate it...
All of the above sensors give data to the ECM to allow it to ADAPT to the ever-changing environment. This is one of the ways the ECM ADAPTS.
The second way the ECM ADAPTS is via "Adaptive Fuel Value" or "Adaptive Fuel" (reference the HD brand Tuners to see that this is a feature of the ECM) This is commonly what is referred to as the Adaptive Learning Mode.
Adaptive Fuel is known generally in the EFI world as Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT).
When in closed loop the ECM uses the information from the above list to calculate airflow, load, temperatures, throttle position, to adapt and maintain the targeted AFR in the closed loop section of the map.
It then uses the o2 sensors to determine what the AFR actually is. If there is a difference, the ECM makes an adjustment real time to the closed loop map, AND stores the difference in an "Adaptive Fuel Value" cell for future use in Open Loop. (again, reference the HD Brand Tuners to verify that there is an Adaptive Fuel Value" that is stored in the ECM and that is constantly changing)
Over time (sources vary between 30-120 minutes of riding) the Adaptive Fuel Value develops a correction profile that is applied to each cell of the map in open loop.
To put it another way, when the ECM sees the closed loop values constantly being richer than expected (like when using an XiED family product), the Long Term Fuel Trim (Adaptive Fuel Value) is increased, resulting in a richening up of the open loop values.
#54
I have a 2013 Heritage. At 75 miles I installed Vance and Hines Straight Shot slip-on's. Getting decel pop now. Pipes were installed properly and no leaks as best as I can see. If I am cruising at highway speed and go straight closed throttle I get decel pop. If Im at say 2,000 rpm or less and decal and down shift no pop. I have the stock A/C, stock header, cat is still there. After 150 miles like this I installed Night Rider FL-Vied-10's and have set them at about 60%. I've only ridden it about 10 miles with the Vied's. But Im wondering if maybe the Straight Shot's are a little too free flowing for this setup, and maybe I should use something like Rush's slip-on's with more baffling inside???
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