Depends on the tuner...With a piggy back type, you eliminate them. With a flash type, you do not...

 

I had my bike dyno tuned using TTS. It is tuned in "open loop" so the O2sensors aren't really doing anything but the ECM is still looking for information from them and if they weren't there, it would throw a code. I know this because one day my bike wasn't starting as fast as it use so I checked codes and the front O2 sensor code came up s I checked the front sensor and it was unplugged. Plugged it back in, cleared the code. Took care of the starting problem and no code ever came back

So if you reflash and remove the O2's it will set off a code

 

The guy who worked on the Delphi programming that GM uses. Think he may know a thing or two about it. This is the same guy who put together an engine build and before he even started working on it said the car would produce 530 hp...it produced 536 whe he was done. Also the same guy who has taken vehicle tunners and the software they use to rewrite an ECM and reprogrammed the software to rewrite other aspects of the ECM that were not allowed to be accessed with the stock software. I can give you his number and you can tell him he's spreading BS about the software and ECM programming HE wrote.

Narrow Band O2s are capable of reading from 12.5 to 17.0 AFR. It's not their capability but their accuracy that makes NB O2s less desirable for tuning than WB O2s. Interesting info on NB O2s:

http://tuneyourharley.com/biketech/c...band-o2-sensor

My understanding is "Narrow Band" doesn't refer specifically to the AFR the sensor is capable of seeing, but the voltage used to report it to the ECM. Narrow bands broadcast from 0-1 volts. "Wide Bands" broadcast from 0-4 volts. Because the WB sensors broadcast over a wider voltage, their readings are more accurate and thus the ECM is can tell precisely how lean or rich the mixture is. Good writeup on the differences in the two sensors:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...r-summary.html

Only partially true. While yes in the A/F Table if you put any value other than 14.6 in the cell you will turn that cell into a "open loop" cell. However, what you fail to mention is the Front and Rear Cylinder Bias tables. This bias sets the AFR in closed loop and thus allows your closed loop AFR to be richer than 14.6.

http://tuneyourharley.com/biketech/c...p-fuel-mixture

(Also there are notes in the Power Vision software that read: "The closed loop bias table is used to adjust the closed loop AFR. Setting the value in this table to 450 mV will result in a closd loop AFR of 14.64; increasing the value will give a richer mixture and decreasing the value will give a leaner mixture.")

Thus, even using the stock O2 sensors, you can have a richer mixture than 14.6 and have that mixture checked and maintained by narrow band O2 sensors.

I'm not telling you. Fuel Moto is.

http://www.fuelmotousa.com/site/power-vision.html

From that page:
I'm always open to suggestions and differing opinions but I don't talk about things I haven't done my research on. Listen to me or not, not my problem.

 

Power Vision
SEPST
TTS

All the above use the factory narrow band O2 sensors. There are others.

You might need to research this topic a bit more to understand how the ECM works and the tuning process.

There are systems like Thundermaxx that use wide band sensors. I don't have any experience with them but I understand they are not without their problems.

I highly recommend the threads here;
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-injection-55/

Lots of really knowledgeable folks here.

 

I would suggest that you are the one spreading BS based upon your limited knowledge of the topic.

 

The tuners below don't actually use the o2 sensors, unless you load a canned map on there where the closed loop portion is still set for 14.6. The only reason the o2 sensors are left installed is so that codes aren't thrown. This is why you are able to remove and use o2 sensor eliminators. Also the thread is about dynoing the bike, not installing an add on with canned maps.

If you used any one of those tuners you mentioned, and did not use a canned map and instead got the bike dyno'd you would NOT need the stock o2 sensors (assuming you put in the o2 eliminators to not throw a code). The only reason to leave them in at that point is to not throw a code.

I understand the use of wideband sensors and how they are used, but in this case we are talking about the stock o2 sensors.

 

Yes, you sure showed me....

As I said earlier, the best thing for him to do is ask his tuner. If you are happy with the way you understand something and how you're bike runs, that's great. Right or wrong.

 

I would suggest you do some research and learn something about this topic as you clearly have a limited understanding.

Using the SEPST with Smart Tune, a map is loaded that is 14.6 in all AFR cells. The bike can be road tested or put on a dyno. Data is record and based upon the adjustments the ECM is making to achieve the 14.6 we will arrive at suggested changes to the VE tables. Once the VE tables are corrected to within 5% (I think) we can be satisfied with the VE table accuracy. Once this is done we can set the AFRs were we want them and be reasonably certain of the ability of the system to accurately achieve the desired AFRs. This is over simplified in a nut shell how the tuning process is done. One can go a step further and use something like a Twin Scan with wide Band sensors.

If you change your exhaust, breather, or other component that affects air flow you will want to repeat the process. I would recomend that the O2 sensors be left in place.

There are piggy back tuners that do little more than simulate O2 Sensor output. These are unable to change Idle, timing or in any way change any data in the ECM. With these devices the O2 sensors may be removed.

 

Nothing you just wrote makes any sense or applies to the point we are discussing.

To add, I don't even believe you understand what you are copying and pasting here. Perhaps it is you who lacks an understanding? Because if you did, you would make sense.

 

Sorry, this is a very basic overview of how it works. No cutting and pasting. I have recommended a link to threads on EFI with postings by a lot smarter folks than me. I suggest you check it out.