emsissions and air cooled engines
#11
09-22-2012, 06:55 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
This thread resurfaces a lot. No HD will not go all watercooled because the revolution is a tough sell. No profit if you can't sell motorcycles.
#12
09-22-2012, 06:56 PM
Club Member
But to answer your question, I think they will sell over time!
#13
09-22-2012, 07:57 PM
The revolution engine thats in the Vrod could easily be put into other Harley models. With a good exhaust it sounds great. My bro has one with a thunderheader on it and it sounds as mean as can be, really loud too. Not the best at idle but sounds really good to me.
#14
09-22-2012, 10:22 PM
I seriously doubt very many people make the decision to buy a particular motorcycle based on sound. Looks maybe and how it performs on a test ride definitely, but sound no. You can always add an aftermarket exhaust if that is your thing.
One issue that perplexes me is the only bikes still made with 45 degree VTwins are Harleys and Harley clone bikes like the Victory and Japanese clones that are trying to copy Harley cruiser style. Every other VTwin design ever produced uses a 90 degree separation and 4 valves per cylinder with over head cams. This is no accident. The 90 degree VTwin is technically superior in every way due to perfect primary balance and the benefits this offers to the engine designer - lighter weight due to lower engine stresses which allow lighter construction, lower center of gravity due to mounting options, better cooling, a more versatile power band and more HP due to a higher allowable red line, etc.. Harley reminds me of Morgan (small British manufacturer of 1920's looking sports cars) in this regard, if anyone remembers they continued and possibly still do make cars with wooden frames just because it makes them unique from the rest. I think a lot of Harley buyers would be willing to do without the 45 degree VTwin look for a more advanced engine that vibrates less, makes more power, has a bigger power band, has no cooling issues and gets better fuel economy. Maybe continue to make the old 45 degree Vtwin for the image conscious buyers but put a better engine in the rest of the models for the rest of use that value performance over image.
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/En...ineBalance.pdf
One issue that perplexes me is the only bikes still made with 45 degree VTwins are Harleys and Harley clone bikes like the Victory and Japanese clones that are trying to copy Harley cruiser style. Every other VTwin design ever produced uses a 90 degree separation and 4 valves per cylinder with over head cams. This is no accident. The 90 degree VTwin is technically superior in every way due to perfect primary balance and the benefits this offers to the engine designer - lighter weight due to lower engine stresses which allow lighter construction, lower center of gravity due to mounting options, better cooling, a more versatile power band and more HP due to a higher allowable red line, etc.. Harley reminds me of Morgan (small British manufacturer of 1920's looking sports cars) in this regard, if anyone remembers they continued and possibly still do make cars with wooden frames just because it makes them unique from the rest. I think a lot of Harley buyers would be willing to do without the 45 degree VTwin look for a more advanced engine that vibrates less, makes more power, has a bigger power band, has no cooling issues and gets better fuel economy. Maybe continue to make the old 45 degree Vtwin for the image conscious buyers but put a better engine in the rest of the models for the rest of use that value performance over image.
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/En...ineBalance.pdf
Last edited by fat_tony; 09-22-2012 at 10:35 PM.
#15
09-22-2012, 10:42 PM
So a radiator would end the HD mystique? Why? I will admit I don't like the looks of a bike with a huge radiator protruding out of the nose. Surely the designers at the MoCo can come up with something pleasing to the eyes or at least not as prominent.
#16
09-22-2012, 11:46 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
I seriously doubt very many people make the decision to buy a particular motorcycle based on sound. Looks maybe and how it performs on a test ride definitely, but sound no. You can always add an aftermarket exhaust if that is your thing.
One issue that perplexes me is the only bikes still made with 45 degree VTwins are Harleys and Harley clone bikes like the Victory and Japanese clones that are trying to copy Harley cruiser style. Every other VTwin design ever produced uses a 90 degree separation and 4 valves per cylinder with over head cams. This is no accident. The 90 degree VTwin is technically superior in every way due to perfect primary balance and the benefits this offers to the engine designer - lighter weight due to lower engine stresses which allow lighter construction, lower center of gravity due to mounting options, better cooling, a more versatile power band and more HP due to a higher allowable red line, etc.. Harley reminds me of Morgan (small British manufacturer of 1920's looking sports cars) in this regard, if anyone remembers they continued and possibly still do make cars with wooden frames just because it makes them unique from the rest. I think a lot of Harley buyers would be willing to do without the 45 degree VTwin look for a more advanced engine that vibrates less, makes more power, has a bigger power band, has no cooling issues and gets better fuel economy. Maybe continue to make the old 45 degree Vtwin for the image conscious buyers but put a better engine in the rest of the models for the rest of use that value performance over image.
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/En...ineBalance.pdf
One issue that perplexes me is the only bikes still made with 45 degree VTwins are Harleys and Harley clone bikes like the Victory and Japanese clones that are trying to copy Harley cruiser style. Every other VTwin design ever produced uses a 90 degree separation and 4 valves per cylinder with over head cams. This is no accident. The 90 degree VTwin is technically superior in every way due to perfect primary balance and the benefits this offers to the engine designer - lighter weight due to lower engine stresses which allow lighter construction, lower center of gravity due to mounting options, better cooling, a more versatile power band and more HP due to a higher allowable red line, etc.. Harley reminds me of Morgan (small British manufacturer of 1920's looking sports cars) in this regard, if anyone remembers they continued and possibly still do make cars with wooden frames just because it makes them unique from the rest. I think a lot of Harley buyers would be willing to do without the 45 degree VTwin look for a more advanced engine that vibrates less, makes more power, has a bigger power band, has no cooling issues and gets better fuel economy. Maybe continue to make the old 45 degree Vtwin for the image conscious buyers but put a better engine in the rest of the models for the rest of use that value performance over image.
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/En...ineBalance.pdf
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...y-gets-its-due
#17
09-23-2012, 12:53 AM
Ultimate HDF Member
I am not perplexed. There are two air cooled Harley's of a different engine family in my garage for a reason. Keep your 90 degree four valves crap. I could buy several for the cost of just one of my Harley's. It is like the saying---if I have to explain you wouldn't understand anyway.
I seriously doubt very many people make the decision to buy a particular motorcycle based on sound. Looks maybe and how it performs on a test ride definitely, but sound no. You can always add an aftermarket exhaust if that is your thing.
One issue that perplexes me is the only bikes still made with 45 degree VTwins are Harleys and Harley clone bikes like the Victory and Japanese clones that are trying to copy Harley cruiser style. Every other VTwin design ever produced uses a 90 degree separation and 4 valves per cylinder with over head cams. This is no accident. The 90 degree VTwin is technically superior in every way due to perfect primary balance and the benefits this offers to the engine designer - lighter weight due to lower engine stresses which allow lighter construction, lower center of gravity due to mounting options, better cooling, a more versatile power band and more HP due to a higher allowable red line, etc.. Harley reminds me of Morgan (small British manufacturer of 1920's looking sports cars) in this regard, if anyone remembers they continued and possibly still do make cars with wooden frames just because it makes them unique from the rest. I think a lot of Harley buyers would be willing to do without the 45 degree VTwin look for a more advanced engine that vibrates less, makes more power, has a bigger power band, has no cooling issues and gets better fuel economy. Maybe continue to make the old 45 degree Vtwin for the image conscious buyers but put a better engine in the rest of the models for the rest of use that value performance over image.
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/En...ineBalance.pdf
One issue that perplexes me is the only bikes still made with 45 degree VTwins are Harleys and Harley clone bikes like the Victory and Japanese clones that are trying to copy Harley cruiser style. Every other VTwin design ever produced uses a 90 degree separation and 4 valves per cylinder with over head cams. This is no accident. The 90 degree VTwin is technically superior in every way due to perfect primary balance and the benefits this offers to the engine designer - lighter weight due to lower engine stresses which allow lighter construction, lower center of gravity due to mounting options, better cooling, a more versatile power band and more HP due to a higher allowable red line, etc.. Harley reminds me of Morgan (small British manufacturer of 1920's looking sports cars) in this regard, if anyone remembers they continued and possibly still do make cars with wooden frames just because it makes them unique from the rest. I think a lot of Harley buyers would be willing to do without the 45 degree VTwin look for a more advanced engine that vibrates less, makes more power, has a bigger power band, has no cooling issues and gets better fuel economy. Maybe continue to make the old 45 degree Vtwin for the image conscious buyers but put a better engine in the rest of the models for the rest of use that value performance over image.
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/En...ineBalance.pdf
#18
09-23-2012, 09:12 AM
If I'm correct,Maricopa County in Arizona is the only place...........so far.
#20
09-23-2012, 04:52 PM
If Harley goes to liquid cooled engines there's a chance current air cooled models become even more desired than they are now and the resale price stays solid, maybe even increases over time.
I say this because a guy I work with is crazy about porsche cars. He told me in 1999 or 2000 they switched over from air cooled to liquid cooled engines in the 911 and now all the people who are into those cars want the late '90s air cooled models.
Not sure if the same will happen with Harleys but I can see it happening.
I say this because a guy I work with is crazy about porsche cars. He told me in 1999 or 2000 they switched over from air cooled to liquid cooled engines in the 911 and now all the people who are into those cars want the late '90s air cooled models.
Not sure if the same will happen with Harleys but I can see it happening.