Does Synthetic oil really make a Harley run cooler
#42
06-21-2012 | 07:05 PM
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Rockledge
I checked this after I went to Mobile one full sny with the same digital oil temp guage was running around 250 with the Dino oil from Harley that came with bike first oil change went to mobile temp dropped abt 20 deg
#43
06-21-2012 | 07:11 PM
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 26
From: Calgary eh
I put in a new K&N filter last time instead of the Harley one and my oil temperature started running about 50 degrees cooler. It has to do with filtering out the odd shaped molecules, better heat transfer less friction.
It's a fact. Tust me.
It's a fact. Tust me.
#45
06-22-2012 | 04:01 AM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 10
From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
Let’s talk first about what “dino” oil is (Dino is short for Dinosaur, which is when it started forming). Dino oil is created from something called “Base Stock”. Base stock is refined mineral oil that contains no additives. It is the interim product that is reached after crude oil (that comes from the ground) has undergone refinement. From there, additives are combined with the Base Stock, to create our motor oil. There are 7 main additives which include anti-foaming agents, anti-corrosion, etc, etc. At the molecular level, dino oil contains molecules of varying sizes. Imagine the floor of a gymnasium covered with basketballs, baseballs, volleyballs, and beach *****. Now imagine that all those different size “*****” are moving around, flowing past the floor. Every time a ball surface contacts the floor surface, the ball absorbs heat from the floor. That is how oil removes heat from your engine components, from surface to surface contact.
Now imagine the same gymnasium floor covered in uniformly sized golf *****. Smaller, more uniform molecules can absorb more heat from a surface, because there are more of them AND they have a larger surface to volume ratio which means they have more surface area contact. That’s what synthetic oil is. A man-made “Base Stock”, where all the molecules are the same size, and smaller than those in dino oil. Better heat transfer, better lubricating properties, and a lot wider temperature range without breakdown, are now obtained.
Oil does not break down under normal use. This is true of both dino and synthetic oil and is also the reason why you take oil to the Recycling Center and not the trash dump. So if oil itself doesn’t ever degrade, why do we have to change it? The answer is twofold: additives and contamination. It will probably surprise you to learn that synthetic oil has all the same additives that dino oil has! The additives in oil DO break down, which is part of what necessitates oil changes. The other reason for regular oil changes is that with use, motor oil becomes contaminated (dirt, water, acids, etc). Using synthetic oil does not protect against either of these problems, which is why you CANNOT go further between oil changes when running a synthetic. You should still change your synthetic oil at the same intervals as you do with dino oil. Anyone want to guess how many claims Mobil 1 had to pay to people that were going 25,000 miles between changes?
A lot of people ask “What’s the point of running synthetic oil, if you can’t change it less often?” Here’s the answer in a nutshell.
Since synthetic oil has better heat transfer qualities than dino oil, your internal engine temperatures will be lower. Things like bearings, especially, will not operate at as high of a temperature as a result. Important note: Do not run synthetic to fix a hot running engine. Find the real reason it’s running hot, and fix it!
Another benefit is that since synthetic oil is man-made, it can be tailored to suit a wider range of needs. Synthetic oil is now being made is such weights as 5w50, and 0w30, weights that are not possible to achieve with dino oils.
Now imagine the same gymnasium floor covered in uniformly sized golf *****. Smaller, more uniform molecules can absorb more heat from a surface, because there are more of them AND they have a larger surface to volume ratio which means they have more surface area contact. That’s what synthetic oil is. A man-made “Base Stock”, where all the molecules are the same size, and smaller than those in dino oil. Better heat transfer, better lubricating properties, and a lot wider temperature range without breakdown, are now obtained.
Oil does not break down under normal use. This is true of both dino and synthetic oil and is also the reason why you take oil to the Recycling Center and not the trash dump. So if oil itself doesn’t ever degrade, why do we have to change it? The answer is twofold: additives and contamination. It will probably surprise you to learn that synthetic oil has all the same additives that dino oil has! The additives in oil DO break down, which is part of what necessitates oil changes. The other reason for regular oil changes is that with use, motor oil becomes contaminated (dirt, water, acids, etc). Using synthetic oil does not protect against either of these problems, which is why you CANNOT go further between oil changes when running a synthetic. You should still change your synthetic oil at the same intervals as you do with dino oil. Anyone want to guess how many claims Mobil 1 had to pay to people that were going 25,000 miles between changes?
A lot of people ask “What’s the point of running synthetic oil, if you can’t change it less often?” Here’s the answer in a nutshell.
Since synthetic oil has better heat transfer qualities than dino oil, your internal engine temperatures will be lower. Things like bearings, especially, will not operate at as high of a temperature as a result. Important note: Do not run synthetic to fix a hot running engine. Find the real reason it’s running hot, and fix it!
Another benefit is that since synthetic oil is man-made, it can be tailored to suit a wider range of needs. Synthetic oil is now being made is such weights as 5w50, and 0w30, weights that are not possible to achieve with dino oils.
#48
06-22-2012 | 09:29 AM
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 26
From: Calgary eh
Most of what you said is propaganda made up by oil companies to sell expensive oil. Syn oil has its place, but you should buy it for the right reasons. It wont change the operating temperature of your engine any more than a different oil filter would. If there was that much more friction in your engine with conventional oil, you wouldnt make it to the nearest starbucks before it ceased.
#49
06-22-2012 | 10:32 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,613
Likes: 3,280
From: Green Country
The items I listed was research I had previously used as a project several years back. If you'll remember I never advocated usage of either, as I have and currently use both.
If I remember correctly from H.S. physics, there is such a thing as coefficient of friction and laminate flow of fluids. A layer of fluid with a fixed viscosity, between two flat metal plates...one fixed and one moving...the center-most fluid molecules move slower if at all. The speed at which the molecules move increase the closer you get to the moving plate. Friction created within the laminate flow of the fluid in itself causes heat, which in turn contributes to the thermal breakdown of the fluid viscosity, etc.
But hey, it's all good. I'll buy ya' a beer or two if you ever venture down this way.
If I remember correctly from H.S. physics, there is such a thing as coefficient of friction and laminate flow of fluids. A layer of fluid with a fixed viscosity, between two flat metal plates...one fixed and one moving...the center-most fluid molecules move slower if at all. The speed at which the molecules move increase the closer you get to the moving plate. Friction created within the laminate flow of the fluid in itself causes heat, which in turn contributes to the thermal breakdown of the fluid viscosity, etc.
But hey, it's all good. I'll buy ya' a beer or two if you ever venture down this way.
#50
06-22-2012 | 10:49 AM
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 26
From: Calgary eh
The items I listed was research I had previously used as a project several years back. If you'll remember I never advocated usage of either, as I have and currently use both.
If I remember correctly from H.S. physics, there is such a thing as coefficient of friction and laminate flow of fluids. A layer of fluid with a fixed viscosity, between two flat metal plates...one fixed and one moving...the center-most fluid molecules move slower if at all. The speed at which the molecules move increase the closer you get to the moving plate. Friction created within the laminate flow of the fluid in itself causes heat, which in turn contributes to the thermal breakdown of the fluid viscosity, etc.
But hey, it's all good. I'll buy ya' a beer or two if you ever venture down this way.
If I remember correctly from H.S. physics, there is such a thing as coefficient of friction and laminate flow of fluids. A layer of fluid with a fixed viscosity, between two flat metal plates...one fixed and one moving...the center-most fluid molecules move slower if at all. The speed at which the molecules move increase the closer you get to the moving plate. Friction created within the laminate flow of the fluid in itself causes heat, which in turn contributes to the thermal breakdown of the fluid viscosity, etc.
But hey, it's all good. I'll buy ya' a beer or two if you ever venture down this way.