General Harley Davidson Chat Forum to discuss general Harley Davidson issues, topics, and experiences.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Does Synthetic oil really make a Harley run cooler

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 06-20-2012 | 09:01 AM
DresserDude's Avatar
DresserDude
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 47
From: Central Florida
Default

I run synthetic because it can withstand more extreme situations.

Ripsaw, I think you don't want Norman POPPING you, not poping you.
 
  #12  
Old 06-20-2012 | 09:38 AM
deuce40s's Avatar
deuce40s
Advanced
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: The South
Default

I read an article (about rear end differentials using synthetics) that found the oil is cooler only because it is not pulling as much heat from the surrounding metals. The ring and pinions physically were hotter with synthetics, but the synthetic oil temps were lower.

Either way, my bike struggles to reach 200 degrees even in traffic. Normally it sits between 160-190. I use synthetics.
 
  #13  
Old 06-20-2012 | 11:46 AM
zeus33's Avatar
zeus33
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 26
From: Calgary eh
Default

Originally Posted by deuce40s
I read an article (about rear end differentials using synthetics) that found the oil is cooler only because it is not pulling as much heat from the surrounding metals. The ring and pinions physically were hotter with synthetics, but the synthetic oil temps were lower.
That sounds like a load of baloney right there. Don't believe everything you read.
 
  #14  
Old 06-20-2012 | 12:11 PM
hdgzr's Avatar
hdgzr
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,613
Likes: 3,279
From: Green Country
Default

Let’s talk first about what “dino” oil is (Dino is short for Dinosaur, which is when it started forming). Dino oil is created from something called “Base Stock”. Base stock is refined mineral oil that contains no additives. It is the interim product that is reached after crude oil (that comes from the ground) has undergone refinement. From there, additives are combined with the Base Stock, to create our motor oil. There are 7 main additives which include anti-foaming agents, anti-corrosion, etc, etc. At the molecular level, dino oil contains molecules of varying sizes. Imagine the floor of a gymnasium covered with basketballs, baseballs, volleyballs, and beach *****. Now imagine that all those different size “*****” are moving around, flowing past the floor. Every time a ball surface contacts the floor surface, the ball absorbs heat from the floor. That is how oil removes heat from your engine components, from surface to surface contact.
Now imagine the same gymnasium floor covered in uniformly sized golf *****. Smaller, more uniform molecules can absorb more heat from a surface, because there are more of them AND they have a larger surface to volume ratio which means they have more surface area contact. That’s what synthetic oil is. A man-made “Base Stock”, where all the molecules are the same size, and smaller than those in dino oil. Better heat transfer, better lubricating properties, and a lot wider temperature range without breakdown, are now obtained.

Oil does not break down under normal use. This is true of both dino and synthetic oil and is also the reason why you take oil to the Recycling Center and not the trash dump. So if oil itself doesn’t ever degrade, why do we have to change it? The answer is twofold: additives and contamination. It will probably surprise you to learn that synthetic oil has all the same additives that dino oil has! The additives in oil DO break down, which is part of what necessitates oil changes. The other reason for regular oil changes is that with use, motor oil becomes contaminated (dirt, water, acids, etc). Using synthetic oil does not protect against either of these problems, which is why you CANNOT go further between oil changes when running a synthetic. You should still change your synthetic oil at the same intervals as you do with dino oil. Anyone want to guess how many claims Mobil 1 had to pay to people that were going 25,000 miles between changes?

A lot of people ask “What’s the point of running synthetic oil, if you can’t change it less often?” Here’s the answer in a nutshell.
Since synthetic oil has better heat transfer qualities than dino oil, your internal engine temperatures will be lower. Things like bearings, especially, will not operate at as high of a temperature as a result. Important note: Do not run synthetic to fix a hot running engine. Find the real reason it’s running hot, and fix it!
Another benefit is that since synthetic oil is man-made, it can be tailored to suit a wider range of needs. Synthetic oil is now being made is such weights as 5w50, and 0w30, weights that are not possible to achieve with dino oils.
 
  #15  
Old 06-20-2012 | 12:23 PM
Twistnride's Avatar
Twistnride
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,855
Likes: 11
From: Oroville,Washington.
Default

Thanks for an intelligent and enligtening answer concerning the subject. A nice departure from the urban legend bullshit that usually flies here. I run synthetics,they work,for all the reasons you stated.
 
  #16  
Old 06-20-2012 | 12:33 PM
FNGonaRK's Avatar
FNGonaRK
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,397
Likes: 8,130
From: Georgia
Default

Originally Posted by Twistnride
Thanks for an intelligent and enligtening answer concerning the subject. A nice departure from the urban legend bullshit that usually flies here. I run synthetics,they work,for all the reasons you stated.
I just put ice in the oil fill hole if I'm going to be sitting in lots of traffic and then try to change the oil shortly afterwards, within a thousand miles or so.
 
  #17  
Old 06-20-2012 | 12:41 PM
Twistnride's Avatar
Twistnride
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,855
Likes: 11
From: Oroville,Washington.
Default

Originally Posted by FNGonaRK
I just put ice in the oil fill hole if I'm going to be sitting in lots of traffic and then try to change the oil shortly afterwards, within a thousand miles or so.
A lotta' dipsticks do that.
 
  #18  
Old 06-20-2012 | 01:18 PM
zeus33's Avatar
zeus33
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 26
From: Calgary eh
Default

Originally Posted by hdgzr
Let’s talk first about what “dino” oil is (Dino is short for Dinosaur, which is when it started forming). Dino oil is created from something called “Base Stock”. Base stock is refined mineral oil that contains no additives. It is the interim product that is reached after crude oil (that comes from the ground) has undergone refinement. From there, additives are combined with the Base Stock, to create our motor oil. There are 7 main additives which include anti-foaming agents, anti-corrosion, etc, etc. At the molecular level, dino oil contains molecules of varying sizes. Imagine the floor of a gymnasium covered with basketballs, baseballs, volleyballs, and beach *****. Now imagine that all those different size “*****” are moving around, flowing past the floor. Every time a ball surface contacts the floor surface, the ball absorbs heat from the floor. That is how oil removes heat from your engine components, from surface to surface contact.
Now imagine the same gymnasium floor covered in uniformly sized golf *****. Smaller, more uniform molecules can absorb more heat from a surface, because there are more of them AND they have a larger surface to volume ratio which means they have more surface area contact. That’s what synthetic oil is. A man-made “Base Stock”, where all the molecules are the same size, and smaller than those in dino oil. Better heat transfer, better lubricating properties, and a lot wider temperature range without breakdown, are now obtained.

Oil does not break down under normal use. This is true of both dino and synthetic oil and is also the reason why you take oil to the Recycling Center and not the trash dump. So if oil itself doesn’t ever degrade, why do we have to change it? The answer is twofold: additives and contamination. It will probably surprise you to learn that synthetic oil has all the same additives that dino oil has! The additives in oil DO break down, which is part of what necessitates oil changes. The other reason for regular oil changes is that with use, motor oil becomes contaminated (dirt, water, acids, etc). Using synthetic oil does not protect against either of these problems, which is why you CANNOT go further between oil changes when running a synthetic. You should still change your synthetic oil at the same intervals as you do with dino oil. Anyone want to guess how many claims Mobil 1 had to pay to people that were going 25,000 miles between changes?

A lot of people ask “What’s the point of running synthetic oil, if you can’t change it less often?” Here’s the answer in a nutshell.
Since synthetic oil has better heat transfer qualities than dino oil, your internal engine temperatures will be lower. Things like bearings, especially, will not operate at as high of a temperature as a result. Important note: Do not run synthetic to fix a hot running engine. Find the real reason it’s running hot, and fix it!
Another benefit is that since synthetic oil is man-made, it can be tailored to suit a wider range of needs. Synthetic oil is now being made is such weights as 5w50, and 0w30, weights that are not possible to achieve with dino oils.
Did you copy this from the mobil1 web site? It's an interesting story about the molecule size and heat transfer and all that, but it's just a story. If that were true, which I don't believe, the difference would be negligible. Besides in the end, the vast majority of the heat of the engine is a product of the combustion of the fuel. Only a small percentage is due to friction. The whole argument about synthetic is slipperier is a line of bunk that the synthetic oil companies want the consumer to believe.

Stick with the manual is the best advice. Dino oil is all the engineers at HD call for.
 
  #19  
Old 06-20-2012 | 01:20 PM
Jackie Paper's Avatar
Jackie Paper
Thread Starter
|
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35,640
Likes: 5,104
From: Honah Lee
Default

Originally Posted by DresserDude
I run synthetic because it can withstand more extreme situations.

Ripsaw, I think you don't want Norman POPPING you, not poping you.
Thanks man..not sure how long that's been that way. Least it didn't have two 'oo' in it. The whip lady did not like my add in there a few months back and deleted it. May have did it then. Like your helmet, you and I are the only two Harley riders I know who wear one.
Good place to add here that I do not believe and lowers temperature. Load and speed does and outside temperature. Once mine runs around 220 or so at 95 outside temperature and I have seen the oil at 160 degrees on the save type of ride at 35 degrees outside temperature. Of course unlike the newer ones mine has no type of thermostat or oil cooler
 
Attached Thumbnails Does Synthetic oil really make a Harley run cooler-safety-number-1.jpg  

Last edited by Jackie Paper; 06-20-2012 at 01:30 PM.
  #20  
Old 06-20-2012 | 01:20 PM
Shredding rubber's Avatar
Shredding rubber
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,450
Likes: 8
From: Right about the middle
Default

Originally Posted by hdgzr
Let’s talk first about what “dino” oil is (Dino is short for Dinosaur, which is when it started forming). Dino oil is created from something called “Base Stock”. Base stock is refined mineral oil that contains no additives. It is the interim product that is reached after crude oil (that comes from the ground) has
undergone refinement. From there, additives are combined with the Base Stock, to create our motor oil. There are 7 main additives which include anti-foaming agents, anti-corrosion, etc, etc. At the molecular level,
dino oil contains molecules of varying sizes. Imagine the floor of a gymnasium covered with basketballs, baseballs, volleyballs, and beach *****.
Now imagine that all those different size “*****” are moving around, flowing past the floor. Every time a ball surface contacts the floor surface, the ball absorbs heat from the floor.
That is how oil removes heat from your engine components, from surface to surface contact.
Now imagine the same gymnasium floor covered in uniformly sized golf *****.
Smaller, more uniform molecules can absorb more heat from a surface, because there are more of them AND they have a larger surface to volume ratio which means they
have more surface area contact. That’s what synthetic oil is. A man-made “Base Stock”, where all the molecules are the same size, and smaller than those in dino oil. Better heat transfer,
better lubricating properties, and a lot wider temperature range without breakdown, are now obtained.

Oil does not break down under
normal use. This is true of both dino and synthetic oil and is also the reason why you take oil to the Recycling Center and not the trash dump. So if oil itself doesn’t ever degrade, why do we have to change it? The
answer is twofold: additives and contamination. It will probably surprise you to learn that synthetic oil has all the same additives that dino oil has! The additives in oil DO break down,
which is part of what necessitates oil changes. The other reason for regular oil changes is that with use, motor oil becomes contaminated (dirt, water, acids, etc). Using
synthetic oil does not protect against either of these problems, which is why you CANNOT go further between oil changes when running a synthetic. You should still change your synthetic oil at the
same intervals as you do with dino oil. Anyone want to guess how many claims Mobil 1 had to pay to people that were going 25,000 miles between changes?

A lot of people ask “What’s the
point of running synthetic oil, if you can’t change it less often?” Here’s the answer in a nutshell.
Since synthetic oil has better heat transfer qualities than dino oil, your internal engine temperatures will be lower.
Things like bearings, especially, will not operate at as high of a temperature as a result. Important note: Do not run synthetic to fix a hot running engine. Find the real reason it’s running hot, and fix it!
Another benefit is that since synthetic oil is man-made, it can be tailored to suit a wider range of needs. Synthetic oil is now being made is such weights as 5w50, and 0w30, weights that are not possible to achieve with
dino oils.
This answer is close but still some fiction is included.
Synthetic oils aren't man made. They are made from crude oil,broken down into its basic parts then recombined.
Secondly synthetic oils last longer because of their level of purity. For example a group 3 basestock is considered synthetic in north America due to it's level of refinement. It uses hydrogen bubbled through the crude to eliminate impurities such as aromatic parafins
 


Quick Reply: Does Synthetic oil really make a Harley run cooler



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.