Veteran patch??
#61
06-16-2012, 02:26 PM
Road Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Vancouver Island British Colombia Canada
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
The bond among MC members is not like the bonds most of us are familiar with in our day-to-day, workaday lives. Aside from family members, you and I don't have a common bond with those we spend our time with such that we would lay our lives down for one another. That is, unless you're a cop, or in the service, or in another field of work in which your life is part of the equation.
MCs respect vets and service members because they have similar codes in these regards. MCs don't voice much respect for LEOs, but that's natural because the LEOs are often on the other side of events from the MCs. Still, in principle, LEOs and MCs are a lot more alike than LEOs and you and I, or MCs and you and I...in these regards.
This principle--the duty to lay down your life in defense of your brother--is not something most of us live with on a daily basis. Case in point: Can you imagine relying upon a co-worker to give his/her life for you? Can you imagine them relying upon you for the same thing? This is not something a corporation teaches us. In fact, it teaches something quite different (which is another post).
You (OP) and your friends did not invent MCs. Yet, they exist. They were here before you. They'll be here after you. It doesn't sound like your 'club' bothered to learn anything about them. Thus, it appears it means nothing to you that there is an MC in your locale, the members of which would give their lives for one another. This is the gist of your situation the way I see it.
If in fact you and your crew respect this type of commitment, one in which a brother defends a brother to the death, then the thing for you to do is to take the lead and approach the local MC in order to work your situation out. They will respect you for that. Because once your err was recognized, you will have taken the lead to respect the MC and gain their support for your efforts. They will show you respect in return.
If we have no particular respect for such a 'blood' commitment, or don't want to, or have time to deal with it, and all that goes with it...then we'll need to keep looking for our own 'magic' patch. The one to give us heart. And courage. And commitment...
We are what we respect.
alan
MCs respect vets and service members because they have similar codes in these regards. MCs don't voice much respect for LEOs, but that's natural because the LEOs are often on the other side of events from the MCs. Still, in principle, LEOs and MCs are a lot more alike than LEOs and you and I, or MCs and you and I...in these regards.
This principle--the duty to lay down your life in defense of your brother--is not something most of us live with on a daily basis. Case in point: Can you imagine relying upon a co-worker to give his/her life for you? Can you imagine them relying upon you for the same thing? This is not something a corporation teaches us. In fact, it teaches something quite different (which is another post).
You (OP) and your friends did not invent MCs. Yet, they exist. They were here before you. They'll be here after you. It doesn't sound like your 'club' bothered to learn anything about them. Thus, it appears it means nothing to you that there is an MC in your locale, the members of which would give their lives for one another. This is the gist of your situation the way I see it.
If in fact you and your crew respect this type of commitment, one in which a brother defends a brother to the death, then the thing for you to do is to take the lead and approach the local MC in order to work your situation out. They will respect you for that. Because once your err was recognized, you will have taken the lead to respect the MC and gain their support for your efforts. They will show you respect in return.
If we have no particular respect for such a 'blood' commitment, or don't want to, or have time to deal with it, and all that goes with it...then we'll need to keep looking for our own 'magic' patch. The one to give us heart. And courage. And commitment...
We are what we respect.
alan
I'll ride beside you anywhere dude!
respects.
Hatch.
#62
06-16-2012, 09:01 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Posts: 11,065
Received 1,297 Likes
on
484 Posts
baka1969 sed: This thread highlights precisely why I'd never belong to any MC or club. I don't ask my mommy for permission to do anything, I sure as hell am not going to ask permission to anything else. I don't cowtail to anyone.
It appears you were in the Navy. If you were aboard ship, you asked permission to board, permission to leave, and permission to do many other things. Your statement does not fly.
If I want or choose to hang out with my friends then I will. I don't need a patch or symbol to do it. If others choose to do that, then that's them. I know who I will or won't take a bullet for. They know it too. I don't feel the need to advertise it.
You've missed the point of why some of us have made the choice to belong to an MC.
I don't think a MC is anything like serving one's country. I'm insulted by the thought of it. My service and motorcycling are not even remotely related. Also, not all of the sailors I served with rode. What should I tell my buddy who doesn't ride? "Sorry, go f_u_k yourself you're not welcome"?
If you read that from my previous post relating to the similarities of serving my country and belonging to an MC, you've missed the point again. We go out of our way to support active duty and vets whether they are riders or not. In fact, most of our support has gone to non-riders. Finally, since you are not in an MC you have no basis for comparison.
The whole MC and protocol thing is a bunch of drama bullshit. I'll ride alone or whith whom and when I want.
Yep, there is plenty of drama, LOL. Most of it comes from non-MCers who haven't a clue of why an MC chooses to exist, or operate the way it does. Some of it comes from brothers who've gone off the rails. That is why we're brothers; so we can help them get back on the tracks.
I've been in various MCs, vet & non-vet, since 1976. They've been Mom & Pop 1-piece outfits, an outlaw club (that flew a 1-piece patch, LOL), the CMA, and two VMCs. I've enjoyed 99% of the time, and 99% of the brothers I had/have. I managed to be everything from the rankest peon prospect to a national officer. I was never degraded or ill-treated by my brothers; in fact, my prospect times were very similar to my Chief Petty Officer initiation process. At every step of the journey, whether MC or CPO, I did my damnedest to support my brothers, and to support the purpose of the organization. I am proud of that now, and I will always be proud of that.
This next stuff has been said so many times it borders on "bang my head against the wall" to repeat it:
1. Believe little to nothing you see on any TV/movie about an MC.
2. What kernel of truth there might be on those TV/movies applies only to that particular club at that particular place at that instant of time.
3. Believe less than nothing you hear from someone who knows someone who had a second cousin on their Mom's side who had a buddy who was in an MC.
4. If you've never been in an MC you have zero knowledge of what goes on. If you have zero knowledge what makes you think anything you have to say about club business has any value? It doesn't, and to speak about that of which you know nothing is merely a display of ignorance. But ignorance is cured by knowledge; gain it.
5. If you want to know about an MC, find a member and ask. If it's not "club business" they'll be glad to answer.
6. Get past the stereotypes.
And if you are an MC member, remember to conduct yourself with honor at all times; I demand it of my Brothers, and I demand it of myself.
It appears you were in the Navy. If you were aboard ship, you asked permission to board, permission to leave, and permission to do many other things. Your statement does not fly.
If I want or choose to hang out with my friends then I will. I don't need a patch or symbol to do it. If others choose to do that, then that's them. I know who I will or won't take a bullet for. They know it too. I don't feel the need to advertise it.
You've missed the point of why some of us have made the choice to belong to an MC.
I don't think a MC is anything like serving one's country. I'm insulted by the thought of it. My service and motorcycling are not even remotely related. Also, not all of the sailors I served with rode. What should I tell my buddy who doesn't ride? "Sorry, go f_u_k yourself you're not welcome"?
If you read that from my previous post relating to the similarities of serving my country and belonging to an MC, you've missed the point again. We go out of our way to support active duty and vets whether they are riders or not. In fact, most of our support has gone to non-riders. Finally, since you are not in an MC you have no basis for comparison.
The whole MC and protocol thing is a bunch of drama bullshit. I'll ride alone or whith whom and when I want.
Yep, there is plenty of drama, LOL. Most of it comes from non-MCers who haven't a clue of why an MC chooses to exist, or operate the way it does. Some of it comes from brothers who've gone off the rails. That is why we're brothers; so we can help them get back on the tracks.
I've been in various MCs, vet & non-vet, since 1976. They've been Mom & Pop 1-piece outfits, an outlaw club (that flew a 1-piece patch, LOL), the CMA, and two VMCs. I've enjoyed 99% of the time, and 99% of the brothers I had/have. I managed to be everything from the rankest peon prospect to a national officer. I was never degraded or ill-treated by my brothers; in fact, my prospect times were very similar to my Chief Petty Officer initiation process. At every step of the journey, whether MC or CPO, I did my damnedest to support my brothers, and to support the purpose of the organization. I am proud of that now, and I will always be proud of that.
This next stuff has been said so many times it borders on "bang my head against the wall" to repeat it:
1. Believe little to nothing you see on any TV/movie about an MC.
2. What kernel of truth there might be on those TV/movies applies only to that particular club at that particular place at that instant of time.
3. Believe less than nothing you hear from someone who knows someone who had a second cousin on their Mom's side who had a buddy who was in an MC.
4. If you've never been in an MC you have zero knowledge of what goes on. If you have zero knowledge what makes you think anything you have to say about club business has any value? It doesn't, and to speak about that of which you know nothing is merely a display of ignorance. But ignorance is cured by knowledge; gain it.
5. If you want to know about an MC, find a member and ask. If it's not "club business" they'll be glad to answer.
6. Get past the stereotypes.
And if you are an MC member, remember to conduct yourself with honor at all times; I demand it of my Brothers, and I demand it of myself.
Last edited by pococj; 06-16-2012 at 09:03 PM. Reason: cuz i allus wuntid two bee an edditer!
#63
06-16-2012, 10:42 PM
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
6 Posts
Innumerable posts proving my point exactly. Very little real knowlege or usable information. Mostly uninformed chest thumping, opinion, and feeling.
If you want to be a part of the MC world, there is a right way to do it as there is with most things in life. If you don't, fine. It ain't for everyone.
If you want to be a part of the MC world, there is a right way to do it as there is with most things in life. If you don't, fine. It ain't for everyone.
#64
06-16-2012, 11:05 PM
baka1969 sed: This thread highlights precisely why I'd never belong to any MC or club. I don't ask my mommy for permission to do anything, I sure as hell am not going to ask permission to anything else. I don't cowtail to anyone.
It appears you were in the Navy. If you were aboard ship, you asked permission to board, permission to leave, and permission to do many other things. Your statement does not fly.
If I want or choose to hang out with my friends then I will. I don't need a patch or symbol to do it. If others choose to do that, then that's them. I know who I will or won't take a bullet for. They know it too. I don't feel the need to advertise it.
You've missed the point of why some of us have made the choice to belong to an MC.
I don't think a MC is anything like serving one's country. I'm insulted by the thought of it. My service and motorcycling are not even remotely related. Also, not all of the sailors I served with rode. What should I tell my buddy who doesn't ride? "Sorry, go f_u_k yourself you're not welcome"?
If you read that from my previous post relating to the similarities of serving my country and belonging to an MC, you've missed the point again. We go out of our way to support active duty and vets whether they are riders or not. In fact, most of our support has gone to non-riders. Finally, since you are not in an MC you have no basis for comparison.
The whole MC and protocol thing is a bunch of drama bullshit. I'll ride alone or whith whom and when I want.
Yep, there is plenty of drama, LOL. Most of it comes from non-MCers who haven't a clue of why an MC chooses to exist, or operate the way it does. Some of it comes from brothers who've gone off the rails. That is why we're brothers; so we can help them get back on the tracks.
I've been in various MCs, vet & non-vet, since 1976. They've been Mom & Pop 1-piece outfits, an outlaw club (that flew a 1-piece patch, LOL), the CMA, and two VMCs. I've enjoyed 99% of the time, and 99% of the brothers I had/have. I managed to be everything from the rankest peon prospect to a national officer. I was never degraded or ill-treated by my brothers; in fact, my prospect times were very similar to my Chief Petty Officer initiation process. At every step of the journey, whether MC or CPO, I did my damnedest to support my brothers, and to support the purpose of the organization. I am proud of that now, and I will always be proud of that.
This next stuff has been said so many times it borders on "bang my head against the wall" to repeat it:
1. Believe little to nothing you see on any TV/movie about an MC.
2. What kernel of truth there might be on those TV/movies applies only to that particular club at that particular place at that instant of time.
3. Believe less than nothing you hear from someone who knows someone who had a second cousin on their Mom's side who had a buddy who was in an MC.
4. If you've never been in an MC you have zero knowledge of what goes on. If you have zero knowledge what makes you think anything you have to say about club business has any value? It doesn't, and to speak about that of which you know nothing is merely a display of ignorance. But ignorance is cured by knowledge; gain it.
5. If you want to know about an MC, find a member and ask. If it's not "club business" they'll be glad to answer.
6. Get past the stereotypes.
And if you are an MC member, remember to conduct yourself with honor at all times; I demand it of my Brothers, and I demand it of myself.
It appears you were in the Navy. If you were aboard ship, you asked permission to board, permission to leave, and permission to do many other things. Your statement does not fly.
If I want or choose to hang out with my friends then I will. I don't need a patch or symbol to do it. If others choose to do that, then that's them. I know who I will or won't take a bullet for. They know it too. I don't feel the need to advertise it.
You've missed the point of why some of us have made the choice to belong to an MC.
I don't think a MC is anything like serving one's country. I'm insulted by the thought of it. My service and motorcycling are not even remotely related. Also, not all of the sailors I served with rode. What should I tell my buddy who doesn't ride? "Sorry, go f_u_k yourself you're not welcome"?
If you read that from my previous post relating to the similarities of serving my country and belonging to an MC, you've missed the point again. We go out of our way to support active duty and vets whether they are riders or not. In fact, most of our support has gone to non-riders. Finally, since you are not in an MC you have no basis for comparison.
The whole MC and protocol thing is a bunch of drama bullshit. I'll ride alone or whith whom and when I want.
Yep, there is plenty of drama, LOL. Most of it comes from non-MCers who haven't a clue of why an MC chooses to exist, or operate the way it does. Some of it comes from brothers who've gone off the rails. That is why we're brothers; so we can help them get back on the tracks.
I've been in various MCs, vet & non-vet, since 1976. They've been Mom & Pop 1-piece outfits, an outlaw club (that flew a 1-piece patch, LOL), the CMA, and two VMCs. I've enjoyed 99% of the time, and 99% of the brothers I had/have. I managed to be everything from the rankest peon prospect to a national officer. I was never degraded or ill-treated by my brothers; in fact, my prospect times were very similar to my Chief Petty Officer initiation process. At every step of the journey, whether MC or CPO, I did my damnedest to support my brothers, and to support the purpose of the organization. I am proud of that now, and I will always be proud of that.
This next stuff has been said so many times it borders on "bang my head against the wall" to repeat it:
1. Believe little to nothing you see on any TV/movie about an MC.
2. What kernel of truth there might be on those TV/movies applies only to that particular club at that particular place at that instant of time.
3. Believe less than nothing you hear from someone who knows someone who had a second cousin on their Mom's side who had a buddy who was in an MC.
4. If you've never been in an MC you have zero knowledge of what goes on. If you have zero knowledge what makes you think anything you have to say about club business has any value? It doesn't, and to speak about that of which you know nothing is merely a display of ignorance. But ignorance is cured by knowledge; gain it.
5. If you want to know about an MC, find a member and ask. If it's not "club business" they'll be glad to answer.
6. Get past the stereotypes.
And if you are an MC member, remember to conduct yourself with honor at all times; I demand it of my Brothers, and I demand it of myself.
I don't need a MC to form my identity. I don't need a MC to ride. I don't need a MC to have friends. I certainly don't need patches all over me to define me.
#66
06-17-2012, 01:52 AM
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
6 Posts
The MC world isn't for everyone. What this thread is about is the fact that if you want in, there is a right way to go about it. People on the outside looking in are not the best source of info on how to go about it.
Any post on this topic by pococj is good and reliable information.
Last edited by jluvs2ride; 06-17-2012 at 01:55 AM.
#67
06-17-2012, 02:50 AM
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Antioch, IL.
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what a ****ing joke. if they don't want to join an existing MC club and want to start there own it's none of you fricken business. what, they have to go through the process and protocol because you say so, get a life. if they want to put rockers on their jackets they have as much right as your club does.
Sportster1200...I wanna tell you to take a pill or something but I don't want to sound disrespectful so I'll just say I respect your opinion and disagree with you.
To everyone else...thanks for the responses and advice. The situation isn't resolved yet and I'm taking steps to do so. Patching over to another established MC is not going to happen. This is our club...our 'cosa nostra'. We have always shown respect to, and aligned with, other area MC's. But I'll also say it's pretty f***ked up when a dominant MC, that commands the respect of lesser clubs, does so by instilling fear of consequences or retribution if their definition of the concept isn't upheld!
I guess my dad was wrong when he taught me that most respect is earned.
Could be that my values are twisted backwards but I doubt it.
#68
06-17-2012, 02:54 AM
I would likely vote against a prospect wanting to join for the reasons you mention.
The MC world isn't for everyone. What this thread is about is the fact that if you want in, there is a right way to go about it. People on the outside looking in are not the best source of info on how to go about it.
Any post on this topic by pococj is good and reliable information.
The MC world isn't for everyone. What this thread is about is the fact that if you want in, there is a right way to go about it. People on the outside looking in are not the best source of info on how to go about it.
Any post on this topic by pococj is good and reliable information.
I know for certain joining a MC isn't for me. For many reasons, but mostly I want to be independent.
#69
06-17-2012, 10:09 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Posts: 11,065
Received 1,297 Likes
on
484 Posts
I would have liked to go into the goat locker but I wasn't going to be a lifer. I respect you invested the time Chief. Also, as you know, serving your country is not the same as a MC. Of course I had to ask permission in the Navy. I had to deal with many Chiefs even though I am an independent sould. I had my way of maintaining myself all within protocols.
I don't need a MC to form my identity. I don't need a MC to ride. I don't need a MC to have friends. I certainly don't need patches all over me to define me.
I don't need a MC to form my identity. I don't need a MC to ride. I don't need a MC to have friends. I certainly don't need patches all over me to define me.
If a someone came to a club looking for an identity, a reason to ride, a place to find friends, or a patch-jones, he likely wouldn't even make hangaround status. And if he managed to sneak past everyone and get to prospect status, I'd hope that the process would weed him out.
Edit: Wanted to add that with your beliefs as stated in your responses, and with a little patient education about MC life, you would probably be an outstanding Brother.
Remember that someone can choose to start an MC any way they want. They don't need permission from anyone. But if they are wanting to be part of the larger MC community they'll follow the protocols. Imagine if you decided to become a member of the Goat Locker as a PO3 by simply moving your stuff into CPO berthing and showing up for breakfast one fine morning; wouldn't go over very well, LOL!
MCs aren't for everybody. In fact, they're for very few. And they are constantly evolving. What they were back in the late 1940s has never stopped changing, sometimes for the better, and often for the worse. But there is nothing inherently flawed about them, or the people in them. The flaws come about because of what the people in them choose to do.
I don't look down on anyone not in a club. Everyone chooses how they want to run. I don't expect someone else to look up to me because I'm in a club. But it amazes (not really, LOL) that someone believes the crapola spewed about clubs without ever having been in a club, and then takes that false belief and passes judgement. It's about the same as a 9 y/o boy talking about sex and the joys of fatherhood.
Last edited by pococj; 06-17-2012 at 10:15 AM.
#70
06-18-2012, 11:16 AM
Road Captain
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rockers and how they're worn have meaning to some of the MC's and if you do it wrong, you end up taking a risk over a patch. That's on you as much as them. Not worth it. I ride with the American Legion Riders (but then we're all Vets and Vets are generaly respected in the MC community). Most ALR group patches use Chapter while we use Post on ours since we affiliate with the Post and not a Chapter. We're not an MC. My suggestion id for your group to drop a state rocker is you're wearing one and wear a one patch setup as opposed to a 3 or 4 patch grouping and then you should be fine. Our state is on our patch (on the main patch and not a rocker), but then we use a one patch system.
This is in part to why the American Legion Riders do not call themselves an MC or VMC. As Vets we have a common bond and we like to ride. I really dislike the word "poser". If someone likes to ride, that should be enough. As for territory, I spent 25 years serving all 50 states alike. My "territory" runs from sea to shinny sea and I am far from the owner or proprieter of it. The only part I own is the bike I ride. All Vets are my brothers and sisters and I carry no ill will towards another rider for his/her attire, except that I do fell that only Vets should respresent themselves as such. Even then I don't think I'd get too much of an attitude if someone did. Most anyone I know who belong to an MC are decent people and we respect each other, but then they seem to know what it's really about. As I eluded to before, the end on Wild Hogs demonstrates it best. If you're pissed about what someone else is or does, you ought to consider getting on your bike and take a really long ride until you can figure it out!!! There's enough cage-crap to worry about out there without bikers getting into it!!!
I live the life of a real patch holder every day so don’t try to school me on MC life because you’re in a riding club and memorized all the words to a Disney motorcycle movie. You don’t know **** about what being in a 3 piece territorial MC is about.
Watch your Tim Allen movies and preach the life lessons you learn from them to someone else, I live the real life of patch holder.
what a ****ing joke. if they don't want to join an existing MC club and want to start there own it's none of you fricken business. what, they have to go through the process and protocol because you say so, get a life. If they want to put rockers on their jackets they have as much right as your club does.
Wow...You Sir, are a douche bag...They are Vets (like yourself I believe)...They should wear WTF they want...They earned the right...Any dominant club worth anything SHOULD be cool with that...These guys aren't bad *** boogeymen...They are for the most part, guys that like to ride...Some of us watch way too much TV...
They’ve earned my respect as a vet but it ends there. Talk about chest thumping bull ****, all you ****ing slick backs jump on here talking about “my right” to do this or do that. So quick to tell the OP “do what you want and **** everyone else” but you ain’t got the ***** to do it yourselves. All so quick to say “Slap whatever on your back and do what you want”…..but “I ride solo”. The OP did it and is learning the hard way that his “right” to wear what he wants doesn’t mean **** in this world.
as for Sprtstr1200 ... what a work of art !!! themouth!! said it perfectly!! If something said here makes you mad... deal with it!! ... does you no credit to come across like a *******. Better yet ... Why don't you post here on this forum Exactly what steps should be followed by a up & coming club... you know, just to keep things kosher !
I am an *******. I’ve sugar coated my feelings for too long on this forum. I’m not going to go into how to start an MC when my stance is and will always be to go join an existing MC. When this motorcycle fad is over and all the start up b.s. MC’s have faded or self imploded there will be some of us that joined for other reason besides it being the latest trend left to clean up the crap of what was once an exclusive culture of real brotherhood.
Sportster1200...I wanna tell you to take a pill or something but I don't want to sound disrespectful so I'll just say I respect your opinion and disagree with you.
To everyone else...thanks for the responses and advice. The situation isn't resolved yet and I'm taking steps to do so. Patching over to another established MC is not going to happen. This is our club...our 'cosa nostra'. We have always shown respect to, and aligned with, other area MC's. But I'll also say it's pretty f***ked up when a dominant MC, that commands the respect of lesser clubs, does so by instilling fear of consequences or retribution if their definition of the concept isn't upheld!
I guess my dad was wrong when he taught me that most respect is earned.
Could be that my values are twisted backwards but I doubt it.
To those of you who have chimed in with “this is the reason I ride solo” or this is the reason “I won’t ever be part of a club”, thank you for staying where you belong.
My apologies to any patch holders I may have offended with my bluntness, just the way I am.