Calling all Canadians - United we stand to bring down Deeley Canada
#11
02-16-2012 | 11:56 AM
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 791
Likes: 2
From: Canada
One, it is not a monopoly as it is a distributor of one manufacturer and there are many other brands available.
OK sounds like you have a handle on the franchise/business definitions, and I could use some educations in the dept (some light reading no doubt) but still hurts to have ONE single importer, and every HD sold to a customer in Canada on the title makes them the 3rd owner ! MoCo to Deeley 1st, then dealership buys bike from Deeley , and in turn sells it to said "customer".
Two, it is not price fixing as it only involves one brand. Price fixing is when other manufacturers get together and sell for the same price. May not agree with you 100% on the practical application turns out to be price fixing as they must all pay Deeley Base Price, and then it comes down profit margin, and before you go there , yes this is how it works when the dealerships buy from the MoCo (although you have numbers/quotas and such), so another player in Canada sets prices again over the manufacturer. Maybe not technically a monopoly but not good for dealerships or buyers. You can see quite a bit of price deltas on bikes south of the border, not so much north of the border.
Please educate yourself on the terms that you use and while you are at it learn how a "Franchise" operates and what it means. A franchise is not nor ever will be legally a monopoly.
Again, I can admit I am not a legal type, and need to brush up on terminology, but in basic terms, one can see the situation for what it is.
Go buy a Honda in Canada and see how that works for you. Better yet move to the USA if the prices are too high in Canada.
OK sounds like you have a handle on the franchise/business definitions, and I could use some educations in the dept (some light reading no doubt) but still hurts to have ONE single importer, and every HD sold to a customer in Canada on the title makes them the 3rd owner ! MoCo to Deeley 1st, then dealership buys bike from Deeley , and in turn sells it to said "customer".
Two, it is not price fixing as it only involves one brand. Price fixing is when other manufacturers get together and sell for the same price. May not agree with you 100% on the practical application turns out to be price fixing as they must all pay Deeley Base Price, and then it comes down profit margin, and before you go there , yes this is how it works when the dealerships buy from the MoCo (although you have numbers/quotas and such), so another player in Canada sets prices again over the manufacturer. Maybe not technically a monopoly but not good for dealerships or buyers. You can see quite a bit of price deltas on bikes south of the border, not so much north of the border.
Please educate yourself on the terms that you use and while you are at it learn how a "Franchise" operates and what it means. A franchise is not nor ever will be legally a monopoly.
Again, I can admit I am not a legal type, and need to brush up on terminology, but in basic terms, one can see the situation for what it is.
Go buy a Honda in Canada and see how that works for you. Better yet move to the USA if the prices are too high in Canada.
#13
02-16-2012 | 01:06 PM
I completely understand where the op is coming from. I have tried to order parts from the states and dealers cannot sell and ship them to Canada. I even offered a bit more money and the"what will it take" option. To no avail. So S&S it is for me. I refuse to pay the insane Deeley tax. I bought every Harley made part from this forum,used and cheap. I will buy an S&S 106 kit when I'm due then the orca 113 when I'm ready for a brand new one.
Sorry Deeley. I ain't buying.
Sorry Deeley. I ain't buying.
#14
02-16-2012 | 03:15 PM
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,402
Likes: 933
From: Illinois
Big - It's called tough love. All imports into Canada have the same conditions. To single out a brand is bigoted.
Trying to organize a boycott that could cost folks their jobs would qualify as mean spirited to me. You need a better perspective of life and understanding of consequences.
Trying to organize a boycott that could cost folks their jobs would qualify as mean spirited to me. You need a better perspective of life and understanding of consequences.
#15
02-16-2012 | 05:02 PM
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton, AB.
lh4x4, I don't think you understand the situation. This is not about Government requirements, or price fixing... we are paying more because Deeley decides what we pay, not the Prime Minister or a trade organization. There's nothing illegal going on, but myself, and obviously other Canadians, feel Deeley charges too much for products we can get on an open market for considerably less.
Oh, and all imports into Canada do not have the same conditions. Japanese brands will pay higher import duties than US imports, but the Japanese brands will be priced much closer to US prices in Canada.
We are not paying more because of duties and taxes. We are paying more because of an agreement between Deeley and HD that allows him to charge whatever mark-up he feels like. To be fair, I have never seen the agreement and it may be an internet myth for all I know. I do know that the prices charged are much higher than any duties or taxes would account for, and you won't see the same mark-up with any other motorcycle brand in Canada.
Here's an example: $120 is the going rate for a service manual last time I checked. That's more than double the cost in the US.
We obviously are fans of the brand, or we wouldn't even be on this site. The brand isn't the problem here, it's the Deeley tax that's a problem.
This issue strongly affects Harley Davidson sales in Canada. Consumers don't like getting ripped off. This means fewer people in the dealerships, and fewer people buying new bikes or upgrading their current rides.
Oh, and all imports into Canada do not have the same conditions. Japanese brands will pay higher import duties than US imports, but the Japanese brands will be priced much closer to US prices in Canada.
We are not paying more because of duties and taxes. We are paying more because of an agreement between Deeley and HD that allows him to charge whatever mark-up he feels like. To be fair, I have never seen the agreement and it may be an internet myth for all I know. I do know that the prices charged are much higher than any duties or taxes would account for, and you won't see the same mark-up with any other motorcycle brand in Canada.
Here's an example: $120 is the going rate for a service manual last time I checked. That's more than double the cost in the US.
We obviously are fans of the brand, or we wouldn't even be on this site. The brand isn't the problem here, it's the Deeley tax that's a problem.
This issue strongly affects Harley Davidson sales in Canada. Consumers don't like getting ripped off. This means fewer people in the dealerships, and fewer people buying new bikes or upgrading their current rides.
#16
02-16-2012 | 05:16 PM
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 26
From: Calgary eh
So get a friend in the US. Call up a dealer down there and have him ship the part to your buddy's place. Then you bud can ship it to Canada for you. Or he can just go buy it and ship it. Or, you can ride down there one weekend and buy it yourself. Or, you can google the thing and probably find a good used one for sale or a better quality after market part depending on what it is.
I agree the stealers in canada are way overpriced. But I knew that going in. Before I bought the Hog. You gotta suck it up.
I agree the stealers in canada are way overpriced. But I knew that going in. Before I bought the Hog. You gotta suck it up.
#17
02-16-2012 | 05:33 PM
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton, AB.
So get a friend in the US. Call up a dealer down there and have him ship the part to your buddy's place. Then you bud can ship it to Canada for you. Or he can just go buy it and ship it. Or, you can ride down there one weekend and buy it yourself. Or, you can google the thing and probably find a good used one for sale or a better quality after market part depending on what it is.
I agree the stealers in canada are way overpriced. But I knew that going in. Before I bought the Hog. You gotta suck it up.
I agree the stealers in canada are way overpriced. But I knew that going in. Before I bought the Hog. You gotta suck it up.
How is buying stuff in the US and sending it to a buddy's place sucking it up? That's boycotting Deeley.
#18
02-16-2012 | 06:02 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,105
Likes: 14
From: Blaine, WA
lh4x4, I don't think you understand the situation. This is not about Government requirements, or price fixing... we are paying more because Deeley decides what we pay, not the Prime Minister or a trade organization. There's nothing illegal going on, but myself, and obviously other Canadians, feel Deeley charges too much for products we can get on an open market for considerably less.
Oh, and all imports into Canada do not have the same conditions. Japanese brands will pay higher import duties than US imports, but the Japanese brands will be priced much closer to US prices in Canada.
We are not paying more because of duties and taxes. We are paying more because of an agreement between Deeley and HD that allows him to charge whatever mark-up he feels like. To be fair, I have never seen the agreement and it may be an internet myth for all I know. I do know that the prices charged are much higher than any duties or taxes would account for, and you won't see the same mark-up with any other motorcycle brand in Canada.
Here's an example: $120 is the going rate for a service manual last time I checked. That's more than double the cost in the US.
We obviously are fans of the brand, or we wouldn't even be on this site. The brand isn't the problem here, it's the Deeley tax that's a problem.
This issue strongly affects Harley Davidson sales in Canada. Consumers don't like getting ripped off. This means fewer people in the dealerships, and fewer people buying new bikes or upgrading their current rides.
Oh, and all imports into Canada do not have the same conditions. Japanese brands will pay higher import duties than US imports, but the Japanese brands will be priced much closer to US prices in Canada.
We are not paying more because of duties and taxes. We are paying more because of an agreement between Deeley and HD that allows him to charge whatever mark-up he feels like. To be fair, I have never seen the agreement and it may be an internet myth for all I know. I do know that the prices charged are much higher than any duties or taxes would account for, and you won't see the same mark-up with any other motorcycle brand in Canada.
Here's an example: $120 is the going rate for a service manual last time I checked. That's more than double the cost in the US.
We obviously are fans of the brand, or we wouldn't even be on this site. The brand isn't the problem here, it's the Deeley tax that's a problem.
This issue strongly affects Harley Davidson sales in Canada. Consumers don't like getting ripped off. This means fewer people in the dealerships, and fewer people buying new bikes or upgrading their current rides.
When you order a manual it DOES NOT come from HD - its comes directly from the company who prints the manuals, same as do Ford, Chevy manuals. Fact of the matter is that you are comparing apples to oranges - what a product costs in one country is irrelevant to what it costs in another country, there are many costs invoived in getting products from one to the other, duties, taxes, brokerage, shipping, warehousing, shipping again, wages for all involved plus overhead and profits. I have lived on both sides of the border and when I was in Edmonton we got stuff from the states too because it was cheaper - if you can fine and dandy but now HD has said no more and you have to suck it up and pay their price (don't think for a minute that HD corporate doesn't have a say in CDN pricing) or move closer to the border and drive across to buy what you want but living in BFE Sask. that's not really an option. Cost of living in Canada is higher, always has been and probably always will be, some say being Canadian costs moeny and there is probably some truth to that but at the same time so are wages. Look at what folks in the UK pay for some products, when the pound was up they are paying the same price in pounds as we paid in dollars making it better than twice the price.
#19
02-16-2012 | 06:17 PM
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Manitoba, Canada
Yup the stealers in Canada are way overpriced.I used to purchase all parts south of the border and even with shipping duties etc there was a substantial saving. We need to find someone south of the border that is interested in starting a business buying and selling to those of us in the North.
I am sure we would still get a better deal and the businessman would get LOT'S of traffic
I am sure we would still get a better deal and the businessman would get LOT'S of traffic
#20
02-16-2012 | 06:23 PM
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: Peterborough, Canada
Pricing is not that bad here, No it's not identical to the U.S, but last time I checked there was no HD corporation here in Canada, so **** has to cross the border, that means a bit more coin on the end product. You act like this is some big surprise or miscarage of justice. I have no money, so I bought a used bike, I do my own wrenching, I buy aftermarket parts, I do what I have to do, just like everybody else, if you can't afford the dealer, simple, don't go to the dealer. Bitchen about Deeley will get you as far as bitchen about the government and taxes.