question about the new 103 engine
#12
12-25-2011 | 11:04 AM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Simi Valley, CA
You're saying "actually at WOT they run pretty much the same AFR as they always have (~ 12:1), which is to say quite rich".
I said "As for HP, those figures are at WOT with mixtures much richer than stoich".
There is nothing contradictory in those two statements that I can see.
#13
12-25-2011 | 11:41 AM
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Northeast of Indy..
Answers are, NO to Ur first one and Yes to Ur second one.
stg1 is a new High Perf - A/C, Pipes, and some kind of F/M system.
Add some cams to the stg1` and then U'll really notice a diff.
#14
12-25-2011 | 11:48 AM
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
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From: Badlands of ND
Well I had a 2010 96 ci and now have a 2012 103 ci motor. The 103 has much more oomph than the 96 did. Very noticable on the highway. I had to shift down frequently on my old bike when riding 2 up on a hill. New bike, never. That being said I just did a stage 1 on my 103. I did this because of the heat issue from the cat. I just got the bike back this week, and only have about 30 miles on it since the change, but it sure feels livelier. Hopefully now that it is cat free it will run a LOT cooler on those hot days of summer.
#16
12-25-2011 | 01:08 PM
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From: Northeast of Indy..
I wouldn't know of any. Cali is the only one that i know that is diff.
#18
12-25-2011 | 02:29 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Detroit, the asshole of America
The stock 103's with a cat run richer than stoich everywhere. It's not a ton, but they run lambdas of .981-.989 in the cruise areas, too.
The air cleaner is the biggest restriction on them, and it's done to meet drive-by noise regulations (in addition to the mufflers). I left the cat but did slipons/tuner/air cleaner and it is a noticeable seat of the pants improvement, especially at higher rpm. If I had to guess it's only in the +5hp range, though.
The air cleaner is the biggest restriction on them, and it's done to meet drive-by noise regulations (in addition to the mufflers). I left the cat but did slipons/tuner/air cleaner and it is a noticeable seat of the pants improvement, especially at higher rpm. If I had to guess it's only in the +5hp range, though.
#19
12-25-2011 | 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
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From: in a trailer next to a ditch in South Florida
No, you are wrong. Please take a few minutes to inform yourself before so thoroughly demonstrating your lack of knowledge on this subject.
These engines are tuned to run at exactly 14.65:1 +/- 0.20:1 at anything less than 50% Throttle, after the engine has warmed up. Cold or when over 50% Throttle, the mixture is quite rich. A 14.65:1 mixture is neither lean nor is it rich. It's called the Stoichiometric or "Ideal Air Fuel Ratio." Do yourself a favor; pick up any book on this subject and/or Google the term. There are all sorts of psuedoscientists and other lemmings on this forum that simply repeat this "runs lean" nonsense without thinking to check. Just because others spew forth this "runs lean" nonsense on a Motorcycle forum doesn't make it true; and you shouldn't repeat it unless you are familiar with the subject . . . which you clearly are not!
Do these engines run a very high temperature top end? Yes! Will over-fueling the engine by running the mixture very rich, cool it down? Yes (but gasoline is a very expensive coolant) Will a richer mixture produce more power? Yes . . . but that doesn't mean that they are running lean and enriching the mixture at less than 50% Throttle doesn't do much if anything that opening the throttle a bit more wouldn't do, and do better, without the fuel economy penalty.
None of this means that the mixture these bikes use when stock is a "Lean" mixture. All 3-Way Catalytic Converter equipped gasoline engines (including Harley-Davidson) have been this way since Volvo/Bosch came out with their Lambdasonde system in the late 1970's. This system was pretty much universally adopted by all automotive manufacturers between 1979 and 1981 and is still the primary means of emissions control that remains in use today. It's also the same system on all those 150+ HP non-Harley Bikes and 500+ HP Cars . . . gee I wonder how they're getting all that HP running the same mixture Harley is using . . . .Duh!
These engines are tuned to run at exactly 14.65:1 +/- 0.20:1 at anything less than 50% Throttle, after the engine has warmed up. Cold or when over 50% Throttle, the mixture is quite rich. A 14.65:1 mixture is neither lean nor is it rich. It's called the Stoichiometric or "Ideal Air Fuel Ratio." Do yourself a favor; pick up any book on this subject and/or Google the term. There are all sorts of psuedoscientists and other lemmings on this forum that simply repeat this "runs lean" nonsense without thinking to check. Just because others spew forth this "runs lean" nonsense on a Motorcycle forum doesn't make it true; and you shouldn't repeat it unless you are familiar with the subject . . . which you clearly are not!
Do these engines run a very high temperature top end? Yes! Will over-fueling the engine by running the mixture very rich, cool it down? Yes (but gasoline is a very expensive coolant) Will a richer mixture produce more power? Yes . . . but that doesn't mean that they are running lean and enriching the mixture at less than 50% Throttle doesn't do much if anything that opening the throttle a bit more wouldn't do, and do better, without the fuel economy penalty.
None of this means that the mixture these bikes use when stock is a "Lean" mixture. All 3-Way Catalytic Converter equipped gasoline engines (including Harley-Davidson) have been this way since Volvo/Bosch came out with their Lambdasonde system in the late 1970's. This system was pretty much universally adopted by all automotive manufacturers between 1979 and 1981 and is still the primary means of emissions control that remains in use today. It's also the same system on all those 150+ HP non-Harley Bikes and 500+ HP Cars . . . gee I wonder how they're getting all that HP running the same mixture Harley is using . . . .Duh!
Your explanation should be included as a "banner" in all forum headers.
