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ft-lb, hp...please help

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  #41  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FBFletch

Bottom line is - torque is directly measurable, horsepower is not.

Most people don't realize that dyno's only measure torque...Hp is a mathematical equation...I always find it funny when someone quotes HP/torque numbers that are not possible, and anyone with a calculator can call BS.

FYI horsepower ratings are quickly becoming an "American" thing. Most of the rest of the world has dropped HP ratings on industrial engines and electric motors...they are rated in Kilowatts and even calories...but most cars are still rated in HP because it sounds "cool".
 

Last edited by Tom84FXST; 12-17-2011 at 08:18 AM.
  #42  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom84FXST
FYI horsepower ratings are quickly becoming an "American" thing. Most of the rest of the world has dropped HP ratings on industrial engines and electric motors...they are rated in Kilowatts and even calories...but most cars are still rated in HP because it sounds "cool".
Someone in England in the 19th century decided 1 HP should be the amount of power/work it takes to lift 33,000lbs a distance of 1 foot vertically in a time period of 1 minute. - Google

Power is power no matter what units you measure it in.

1 HP = 0.745699872 kilowatts
 
  #43  
Old 12-19-2011, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FBFletch
Well, your statement "Horsepower is nothing but a numerical representaton of force being applied over distance and time, or work being done" is absolutely correct, and also proves you wrong on two counts. The "force" you are referring to is rotational force or torque. That's what you feel - not horsepower. And, just as you said, horsepower is the rate at which work is done. You can NOT feel work. The only thing you can actually feel is the applied force (torque) that causes work to happen. That being said, I stand by my original statement.

Oh, I just thought of an example that we use when we teach the difference between applied force and work. If you push on a wall with your arms, you can feel the force you are applying to the wall in your arms. However, the wall isn't going to move so there is no work performed. If no work is performed the only thing you can possibly feel is the force you've applied to the wall.
That statement about the wall is an old method of teaching the differance between hp and torque and it is quite accurate but you have it wrong. When you are the pushing on the wall, you are the engine, not the rider. The rider is the wall, the object being pushed. Until the wall moves, it feels nothing, once it starts moving, it feels movement and acceration, or work being done. The engine can produce torque without moving, but once it moves any, even one rpm, it is producing power (work being done) that can be measured. You feel that power. As stated, if you have two bikes, both the same weight, and geared correctly (meaning you have a gearbox that can keep the engine in the part of the powerband where it is producing the most hp, not torque) and one has 150/75 hp/tq and the other has 75/150 hp/tq, the one with 150 hp will blister the one with 150 foot pounds of torque and you will certainly FEEL that difference in hp.
 
  #44  
Old 12-19-2011, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chunk
I'll be the black sheep in the family here--the 1982 Kawasaki KZ1100cc offered around 110 hp w/ 135 ft-lb of torque (please quit sayin lb-ft). That makes it the strongest of any engine at its time--overall--period. Many tried & failed, miserably. Something to note here--see the ft-lb it is well above the hp--slightly different than many engines? Well, if i were a gambling man I'd suppose I could take it (hp) over the torque, considering many high hp engines.
My last car was dynoed at 180whp and 240ft/lb. That just means it makes peak tq low in the HP range and can't sustain it at the higher end.

Post a dyno of the KZ1100cc vs. a bike that's putting out 150whp and 135ft/lb.
 
  #45  
Old 12-19-2011, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SportsterBob
Can you build an HD B-T motor that spins 15,000-rpm? When you do you will live a comfrotable life...I'm not being a wise guy here, but it hasn't been done yet and if you can get to 15,000-rpm there will be plenty of HP when you get there!
One problem is you can't get a narrow angle (45degree) VTwin to spin quickly because of the inherent issues with vibration. If you change the angle between the cylinders to 90 degrees then you get perfect first order harmonic balance and drastically reduce vibration but.......... you also loose the trademark HD look and sound, probably why HD have not already done this. This is one reason why Ducati can get twice the horsepower out of their 1200cc 90 degree VTwin as HD gets from their 1200cc 45 degree VTwin. Torque figures are similar.

The other issue that becomes a problem with higher speed operation is breathing. Getting fuel and air into the engine and exhaust out of it. A four valve per cyl engine will breath a lot better than a 2 valve per cyl. engine. Also the valve area/displacement ratio is another way to look at the same problem. A 1000cc 4 cyl. engine with 16valves is going to have a higher ratio and therefore breath better than a 1000cc 2 cyl. engine with 8 valves. This is why you see 8 and 10 cyl engines in formula one which has a 2400cc displacement limit.

Finally higher speed operation generates more heat which necessitates water cooling to maintain durability/longevity.
 

Last edited by fat_tony; 12-19-2011 at 08:01 PM.
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