i had an 89 softail that came carbed but had electronic ignition. that thing left me sit in the middle of bum**** alabama once. i junked the ignition and went with blue streak points and condenser. it had that great idle afterwards and i never looked back. if my new fatbob ever leaves me sit i will junk the efi and ignition and go with my old set up that i can fix instantly with a screw driver.

 

So many factors in how an engine sounds, head design, fuel system and exhaust. I wouldn't expect any of the different engine families to sound the same, maybe similar but not the same. That said, I will own a shovel some day!!!

I'm really not in the know regarding the idle speed/oil delivery issue but this is my take on it. How is it that the knuckle, pan, shovel and evo can idle low with out oiling issues but the TC can't? Would they really bring out a new engine a with sub-par oiling system? It just seems more like they are trying to meet emissions and raising the idle speed probably cleaned up the emissions at idle and the "oil issue" was their scare tatics to keep us from messing with it. Once again, I am not in the know but this is what I have wondered about regarding this subject. Have there been any confirmed engine failures due to lack of oil at a lower idle?

 

It's absolutely no issue at all on the TC 88 to drop the idle speed, i pulled the little aluminum plug on the carb, changed the jets out, and dropped the idle speed on my bike, no problems at all.

 

I didn't figure there was a problem, my 2000 Road King idled lower than my Dyna from day one.

 

Just remember....real low idle speeds, mean less oil pressure, and more pounding on the rod bearings.

FWIW, I've had both....love EFI and breakerless ignition.

Tuning adjsutments? My computer handles that via Powercommander 5 with autotune.

~Joe

 

I've wondered the same thing Rick. It just doesn't make any sense. I think it's a case of "If the MoCo says it, it must be true." The only thing I can think is that because the TCs run so lean and hot they bumped the idle up to circulate more oil to help cool the lump so that fat guys don't burn their thighs and file frivolous lawsuits.

 

21K on a 2010 Twinke with an 830 RPM Idle . . . absolutely no problems what-so-ever. Plenty of oil pressure, had the top end apart to install a 103 kit, cams and clutch at about 9K and no visible or measurable wear. The ONLY reason not to go any lower than 830 is that the ECU tries to track and correct the engine speed with the IAC and this can be a bit of a problem for the programing since a good part of the Potato-Potatoe sound is caused by what is essentially an idle surge condition.

All this nonsense about oiling problems at low idle speeds is a bunch of Moose-pucky. It's always told by someone who heard about it from a friends, brothers, cousins, next door neighbor, who heard from someone that . . . . Geez, talk about urban legends . . . the laws of physics are the same, and apply equally for all of these engines.

 

My thinking is that you don't need any oil pressure at idle. The pump is putting out plenty of volume for the rod brgs. and everything else. I don't think the roller brgs. on the rods in the Shovels were any stronger than on the EVO's or Twin Cams.

All of the old points bikes idled slower because of the mechanical advance. They were about 10 deg. at idle.

I changed out the module on my old Iron Head Sporty for points and condenser also. It ran better and I could fix it as said above. When my EVO ign. module quits, I will probably do the same on it.

 

I know these are words from a dinasaur (me) but for what its worth, I would like to know exactly whats (Parts)required to change a EFI to carb. I would also like to know if anyone is making kits for the newer 96" and above engines.
I have no agenta to push, I have ridden both bikes many miles. My reasons are, My wife has a 05 softail deluxe (efi), I have an 03 heritage w/carb. Both are stock except for mufflers (both have same mufflers). My bike has always got better fuel mileage and runs smoother everwhere than hers. My bike (imo) has a better "feel" of the throttle and how the engine responds. Smoother, plain and simple.
I don't understand how you can get better fuel mileage, better performance(imo) and run cooler at the same time unless the emission are the root of the governments goal.
I hear everyone talk about the choke and crank and go....A choke has never been an issue. The reason to let your engine warm up is because of cold oil and engine lubrication. So all you EFI guys be aware to take it easy until your oils warms so it flows properly.
I realize carbs are gone forever, the days of electronics are here to stay.
All I can figure is beside being able to meter fuel more closely, it must be cheaper to use fuel inj.

 

Much much cheaper, they may charge a fortune for that ECU and other EFI components to us yokels, but it probably costs 25 cents in some chinese sweatshop to mass produce. Meanwhile a quality carb is made of quality metals and you can't skimp on that, EFI is made of cheap plastic and cheap silicone computer parts.

Eventually I'll probably ride an EFI liquid cooled Harley, but I'm holding on to the simplicity as long as I can.