Porsche and HD "cooperation"
#41
09-02-2011, 07:03 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Hey Fats, if yer gonna slag H-D by sucking up to a pasta-can bike at least spell the name of the ravioli burner correctly: D-U-C-A-T-I, or as we call them out here, high-strung, expensive-to-service POS that get stomped by ever decent Japanese bike. And the Bills blow...
I should rephrase, if HD goes with a V-Rod "type" liquid cooled engine, they won't be able to keep the sound. The V-Rod uses a DOHC. It's not a pusrod motor. Heck, even the "Big Twin's" don't have the conventional HD sound. There's a ton of people here wanting to lower their RPM's to attempt to make their bike have the "potato potato" sound. I don't care what exhaust you put on a V-Rod type (or any liquid cooled metric V-twin for that matter", it'll never have the conventional HD sound.
Porsche's engineering department has done contract work for many auto, aerospace, and consumer products over the years. Obviously, they are signed to stringent NDAs to protect their intellectual property and the client's identity. It has been very well documented though that HD is on that client list.
#42
09-02-2011, 08:24 AM
The real "sound" guys are talking about comes from several different factors.
The 45 degree separation is one of them
The domed pistons and hemi-shaped combustion heads are the other.
Nothing sounds as good as a properly tuned shovel or earlier with drag pipes.
It should be noted that turning your idle way down is terrible for the engine. First off, there isn't enough oil pressure to keep things lubed, second, the rod bearings get pounded on every down stroke.
Fact is....twins like a little bit more rev's than a four.
Just my .02
~Joe
The 45 degree separation is one of them
The domed pistons and hemi-shaped combustion heads are the other.
Nothing sounds as good as a properly tuned shovel or earlier with drag pipes.
It should be noted that turning your idle way down is terrible for the engine. First off, there isn't enough oil pressure to keep things lubed, second, the rod bearings get pounded on every down stroke.
Fact is....twins like a little bit more rev's than a four.
Just my .02
~Joe
#43
09-02-2011, 08:55 AM
Cruiser
i would just like to say in my opinion, v-rod is the $hit... it is not a replacement for any of the Harley Davidson classic cruiser styles, it is a steetable drag bike... the real sound of HD should be the sound you would hear when a v-rod blows past you... i don't have to feather my clutch to keep the front tire down i just GO... for them classic cruisers, torque is nice but when it gone what does that leave you, 60 hp and 700 lbs of wieght.
from what i read a little while back on some tech site... HD has a new patient this year for water cooled jugs... allows for increased cylinder temp and will allow for HD to keep with in the epa standards... this design doesn't look like it will affect the sound much at all and it may get your motors some more RPMs which that will change the engine note a little...
from what i read a little while back on some tech site... HD has a new patient this year for water cooled jugs... allows for increased cylinder temp and will allow for HD to keep with in the epa standards... this design doesn't look like it will affect the sound much at all and it may get your motors some more RPMs which that will change the engine note a little...
#45
09-02-2011, 09:34 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Water cooling will only lead to a new generation of HDForum members asking if it's OK to use Syn3 in the radiator.
#48
09-02-2011, 01:39 PM
Advanced
Old guy here that started riding in 1954. I always loved motorcycles because they were simple machines that were easy to work on.
Started on BSA's and Triumph's and got into the 4 cylinder Jap bikes in the 70's. Ended up buying a new Harley FXE Superglide in 1978, built by AMF.
It had a lot of issues, mainly needing to be taken apart and put together so all the parts lined up. I loved that bike though and kept it for 12 years.
Last year, after a few more Jap bikes, I wound up buying a new BMW 800CC watercooled twin. It had every bell and whistle, ABS, heated grips, catalytic converter, very fast and quiet and was almost impossible to work on at home.
I kept it for a year and after 3 recalls for various issues and getting a service manual that made me realize I would have to spend a fortune for tools and diagnostic equipment if I wanted to do anything except change oil, I decided I had enough.
I found an '08 Sportster with very low miles, sold my BMW and got the Harley. Now I can work on everything again. Hell, I can even see what I'm looking for, it's all in the open. You couldn't even see the spark plugs on the BMW unless you spent 30 minutes taking off covers.
That's why I hate to see the old air cooled motors go away. I plan to keep this one a long time. Once Harley goes water cooled with all the EPA hoses, canisters, computers and what not, kiss self service goodbye unless you own a well equipped shop.
Started on BSA's and Triumph's and got into the 4 cylinder Jap bikes in the 70's. Ended up buying a new Harley FXE Superglide in 1978, built by AMF.
It had a lot of issues, mainly needing to be taken apart and put together so all the parts lined up. I loved that bike though and kept it for 12 years.
Last year, after a few more Jap bikes, I wound up buying a new BMW 800CC watercooled twin. It had every bell and whistle, ABS, heated grips, catalytic converter, very fast and quiet and was almost impossible to work on at home.
I kept it for a year and after 3 recalls for various issues and getting a service manual that made me realize I would have to spend a fortune for tools and diagnostic equipment if I wanted to do anything except change oil, I decided I had enough.
I found an '08 Sportster with very low miles, sold my BMW and got the Harley. Now I can work on everything again. Hell, I can even see what I'm looking for, it's all in the open. You couldn't even see the spark plugs on the BMW unless you spent 30 minutes taking off covers.
That's why I hate to see the old air cooled motors go away. I plan to keep this one a long time. Once Harley goes water cooled with all the EPA hoses, canisters, computers and what not, kiss self service goodbye unless you own a well equipped shop.
#50
09-02-2011, 03:46 PM
Old guy here that started riding in 1954. I always loved motorcycles because they were simple machines that were easy to work on.
Started on BSA's and Triumph's and got into the 4 cylinder Jap bikes in the 70's. Ended up buying a new Harley FXE Superglide in 1978, built by AMF.
It had a lot of issues, mainly needing to be taken apart and put together so all the parts lined up. I loved that bike though and kept it for 12 years.
Last year, after a few more Jap bikes, I wound up buying a new BMW 800CC watercooled twin. It had every bell and whistle, ABS, heated grips, catalytic converter, very fast and quiet and was almost impossible to work on at home.
I kept it for a year and after 3 recalls for various issues and getting a service manual that made me realize I would have to spend a fortune for tools and diagnostic equipment if I wanted to do anything except change oil, I decided I had enough.
I found an '08 Sportster with very low miles, sold my BMW and got the Harley. Now I can work on everything again. Hell, I can even see what I'm looking for, it's all in the open. You couldn't even see the spark plugs on the BMW unless you spent 30 minutes taking off covers.
That's why I hate to see the old air cooled motors go away. I plan to keep this one a long time. Once Harley goes water cooled with all the EPA hoses, canisters, computers and what not, kiss self service goodbye unless you own a well equipped shop.
Started on BSA's and Triumph's and got into the 4 cylinder Jap bikes in the 70's. Ended up buying a new Harley FXE Superglide in 1978, built by AMF.
It had a lot of issues, mainly needing to be taken apart and put together so all the parts lined up. I loved that bike though and kept it for 12 years.
Last year, after a few more Jap bikes, I wound up buying a new BMW 800CC watercooled twin. It had every bell and whistle, ABS, heated grips, catalytic converter, very fast and quiet and was almost impossible to work on at home.
I kept it for a year and after 3 recalls for various issues and getting a service manual that made me realize I would have to spend a fortune for tools and diagnostic equipment if I wanted to do anything except change oil, I decided I had enough.
I found an '08 Sportster with very low miles, sold my BMW and got the Harley. Now I can work on everything again. Hell, I can even see what I'm looking for, it's all in the open. You couldn't even see the spark plugs on the BMW unless you spent 30 minutes taking off covers.
That's why I hate to see the old air cooled motors go away. I plan to keep this one a long time. Once Harley goes water cooled with all the EPA hoses, canisters, computers and what not, kiss self service goodbye unless you own a well equipped shop.
just wail til the efi starts acting up in that 08. what you said was the main reason i sold my twincam and went back to a simple carbd evo. i can and have taken my bike apart and back together to adjust things and do maint. with simple tools. it was much more difficult with the electronic stuff on the newer bikes. (had a speedo gremlin that drove me nuts)