Broke My Last Tie To Harley, Goodbye and Farewell
#242
08-20-2011, 03:29 PM
Hahahahaha atleast you wont be like the rest of the racketeers around here you wont be saying "man i always wanted a harley" hahahahaha. You sir can say i owned a harley, well kinda i dont think the 883's or buells count so there ya are.
#244
08-20-2011, 06:29 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
-I don't "get" charging a premium price for a product that is no better or worse than the competition in terms of quality but is clearly inferior in terms of performance.
-I don't "get" how despite all of this perople practically line up out the door to buy into the fable that HD is somehow superior to everything else on the road.
Now, my Ultra will outperform your Busa all day, every day. That based on my chosen criteria and using a a method I like to call "the right way" of choosing a bike - i.e. the right tool for the job. It is perfect for riding coast to coast in comfort. Your Busa will suck at that. Must be a pos.
#245
08-20-2011, 06:29 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
You may have made some valid points but the one thing that makes no sense at all is why would you go with a 883 when your a power junkie. My nephew had (just recently sold) a GSX1000. I loved riding that bike and was almost as heartbroken as he was when he sold it. However, I would never take it on a 2+ hour ride. To each their own. Perhaps you belong on a Busa...that's your thing...HD's are ours. Good luck to you. Enjoy your new bike.
#246
08-20-2011, 07:08 PM
Elite HDF Member
You obviously made the wrong choice in bikes for the type of riding you want to do.
If you think you can find a cruiser/touring bike with the looks, torque, comfort and customizing options over a Road Glide or Street Glide, go buy it.
If you think you can find a cruiser/touring bike with the looks, torque, comfort and customizing options over a Road Glide or Street Glide, go buy it.
#247
09-04-2011, 10:38 AM
Tourer
Has been a very thought provoking thread. I have several friends that are looking at bikes and are specifically interested in cruisers.
I can really only base my experience on my Harley and what I have read on this forum and talking with others.
Mine is a 2001 Heritage Springer left to me by my Dad when he passed. Due to bad health he was unable to put many miles on it. Since I have had it I have put about 15,000 miles on it and it has performed flawlessly.
Then there is the information I have gained through talking with others and on this forum
Based on my experience, and from what I have read and heard.......I'm pretty lucky to have not had any problems. Before joining this forum I ws pretty comfortable thinking, other then general maintenance, I should easily get to 50 or 60 thousand miles and beyond, without a second thought, but you can't click "new threads" without finding a post about a newer model bike that won't start, makes an new odd noise, or barely made it home.
However after joining this forum and doing a bit of reading, from what I gather, much is based on what you own and when it was built, as specific bikes are prone to specific problems. Mine has tww, cams tend to wear prematurly and the Chain Tensioners are unpredictable....can be trashed at 6,000 miles or may look new at 26,000 miles.
Easy to fix, change to a higher quality cam, change the chain tensioners to either hydrolic or go with a gear drive
But honestly for the cost of the bike, the long term reputation of the company, you would think that if a bike is prone to problems, Harley would recall it and correct it.
Have a buddy that has a 10 year old Yamaha Cruiser, 23,000 miles. Develeoped an electrical problem, took it to the shop to have it repaired, was advised his model bike was predisposed to a engine/transsmission issue, though he has not had a problem, they rebuilt his engine and transmission correcting the issue.
Took mine to the Stealership the first couple times for maintenance. $145 dollars for an oil change, and that's all they did. Didn't even try to ease the pain by checking tensions, lubing additional spots, checking air pressures...........nothing, they changed the fluids......period.
Second time I just talked with a mechanic. I just really felt there was an unusual noise, figured a Harley Mechanic would have seen it all and heard it all............his answer, I ride a Honda.
His bike was just over half the price of mine when both were purchased new........and while it pains the "Harley Rider" in me, I was impressed as hell with Yamaha on how they handled it.
Why do I ride a Harley..............my Dad left me his. I will make the changes, do the maintenance and be glad to have it.......but when you really sit down and crunch reality other then sentimental reasons, the only reason to buy a Harley, because they look great, sound great.............and of course...............because it's a Harley, which is a horrible argument against any of this.
I can really only base my experience on my Harley and what I have read on this forum and talking with others.
Mine is a 2001 Heritage Springer left to me by my Dad when he passed. Due to bad health he was unable to put many miles on it. Since I have had it I have put about 15,000 miles on it and it has performed flawlessly.
Then there is the information I have gained through talking with others and on this forum
Based on my experience, and from what I have read and heard.......I'm pretty lucky to have not had any problems. Before joining this forum I ws pretty comfortable thinking, other then general maintenance, I should easily get to 50 or 60 thousand miles and beyond, without a second thought, but you can't click "new threads" without finding a post about a newer model bike that won't start, makes an new odd noise, or barely made it home.
However after joining this forum and doing a bit of reading, from what I gather, much is based on what you own and when it was built, as specific bikes are prone to specific problems. Mine has tww, cams tend to wear prematurly and the Chain Tensioners are unpredictable....can be trashed at 6,000 miles or may look new at 26,000 miles.
Easy to fix, change to a higher quality cam, change the chain tensioners to either hydrolic or go with a gear drive
But honestly for the cost of the bike, the long term reputation of the company, you would think that if a bike is prone to problems, Harley would recall it and correct it.
Have a buddy that has a 10 year old Yamaha Cruiser, 23,000 miles. Develeoped an electrical problem, took it to the shop to have it repaired, was advised his model bike was predisposed to a engine/transsmission issue, though he has not had a problem, they rebuilt his engine and transmission correcting the issue.
Took mine to the Stealership the first couple times for maintenance. $145 dollars for an oil change, and that's all they did. Didn't even try to ease the pain by checking tensions, lubing additional spots, checking air pressures...........nothing, they changed the fluids......period.
Second time I just talked with a mechanic. I just really felt there was an unusual noise, figured a Harley Mechanic would have seen it all and heard it all............his answer, I ride a Honda.
His bike was just over half the price of mine when both were purchased new........and while it pains the "Harley Rider" in me, I was impressed as hell with Yamaha on how they handled it.
Why do I ride a Harley..............my Dad left me his. I will make the changes, do the maintenance and be glad to have it.......but when you really sit down and crunch reality other then sentimental reasons, the only reason to buy a Harley, because they look great, sound great.............and of course...............because it's a Harley, which is a horrible argument against any of this.
-I don't "get" a company that build it's whole image on being bada** and yet can't build an engine that doesn't get sand kicked in it's face by designs that were obsolete from other makes 20years ago, never mind anything current. Name a Harley and I will show you a similar competitors bike that out performs it and for less cash. The V-Rod is the one brilliant exception to this rule but it was made with help from Porsche and is rejected by "the faithful" so does it really count?.
-I don't "get" design flaws or poor quality that are either passed off as "character" or as being "normal" and I, as the consumer, am supposed to either deal with it or fix it myself. My Sportster had several of these issues and my Buell as well.
-I don't "get" the worshiping of the faithful or the cult like following HD has somehow developed.
-I don't "get" an "American" company that refuses to compete but instead tucks it's tail and hides behind it's loyal following **cough Buell*cough**. My America hides from no one and savors the opportunity to kick some butt.
-I don't "get" charging a premium price for a product that is no better or worse than the competition in terms of quality but is clearly inferior in terms of performance.
-I don't "get" how despite all of this perople practically line up out the door to buy into the fable that HD is somehow superior to everything else on the road.
-I don't "get" design flaws or poor quality that are either passed off as "character" or as being "normal" and I, as the consumer, am supposed to either deal with it or fix it myself. My Sportster had several of these issues and my Buell as well.
-I don't "get" the worshiping of the faithful or the cult like following HD has somehow developed.
-I don't "get" an "American" company that refuses to compete but instead tucks it's tail and hides behind it's loyal following **cough Buell*cough**. My America hides from no one and savors the opportunity to kick some butt.
-I don't "get" charging a premium price for a product that is no better or worse than the competition in terms of quality but is clearly inferior in terms of performance.
-I don't "get" how despite all of this perople practically line up out the door to buy into the fable that HD is somehow superior to everything else on the road.
#248
09-04-2011, 10:45 AM
You know, Harley makes a very wide variety of bikes—for tall or short, slight or strong, those who like to race, those who like to tour...
The trick, I think, is to buy one that fits your style. I appreciate the heritage of it, the history. I feel more connected to the country and my heritage on it than others.
As you can see, I have a touring bike, and I find it is the most comfortable all-day touring bike I've ever sat on. Once I personalized the handlebars, it fits me better than my jeans and will go longer. It has more power than I'd ever use, even going up steep mountain roads with passenger and the full fairing, if I want more goose, I just rotate the throttle, and up she goes. To me, that, and the heritage, is what it's about.
The trick, I think, is to buy one that fits your style. I appreciate the heritage of it, the history. I feel more connected to the country and my heritage on it than others.
As you can see, I have a touring bike, and I find it is the most comfortable all-day touring bike I've ever sat on. Once I personalized the handlebars, it fits me better than my jeans and will go longer. It has more power than I'd ever use, even going up steep mountain roads with passenger and the full fairing, if I want more goose, I just rotate the throttle, and up she goes. To me, that, and the heritage, is what it's about.
#249
09-04-2011, 10:51 AM
No one here gives a ****.
Being a person who likes to try new/different things I thought I'd try a Harley.
My "Harley experiment" began last year when I purchased an 04 XL883C. I knew full well that the 883 would never satisfy in terms of power but I figured, 1200 kits are inexpensive and easy to get so, why not.
Now, there were a lot of things that I did like about that bike. With the mods that were done to it (couple of different seats: Badlander for normal riding and the Harley touring seat for long rides, progressive 13.5" shocks) it was comfortable and looked great. Problem was, it was a gutless dog and had several design flaws, oh excuse me "character" traits, that I didn't like at all.
I started looking into what it would cost to bring it up to a decent power level only to find that the 1200kit was only 1 part of many that it would need. The cost to bring it to a HP level that most bikes achieved 30 years ago was appalling and then it was clear that the brakes and suspension would not be up to the task (they were barely adequate for the 883). After about 6000mi I sold that bike and moved on.
Next I bought a Buell XB12R. I figured, it already had all of the upgrades that the Sportster would require in terms of power and it had a chassis and brakes that would be more than up to the task. I was right about the chassis and brakes, they were some of the best I've ever experianced. I was wrong about the engine. For a bike with such clear sporty intentions that engine was a MAJOR letdown. Just when it started making decent power and becoming fun the rev limiter kicked in and it was all over. More research brought me to the conclusion that the Harley mill was just FAR to limited by it's poor design to make decent power reliably. It was either going to be a money pit, a time bomb or both. It was with a heavy heart that I sold the Buell. There was so much it did well but I just couldn't get past that turd of an engine.
Selling the Buell broke my last tie to Harley Davidson and after my "experiment" I can honestly say that I just don't "get it".
-I don't "get" a company that build it's whole image on being bada** and yet can't build an engine that doesn't get sand kicked in it's face by designs that were obsolete from other makes 20years ago, never mind anything current. Name a Harley and I will show you a similar competitors bike that out performs it and for less cash. The V-Rod is the one brilliant exception to this rule but it was made with help from Porsche and is rejected by "the faithful" so does it really count?.
-I don't "get" design flaws or poor quality that are either passed off as "character" or as being "normal" and I, as the consumer, am supposed to either deal with it or fix it myself. My Sportster had several of these issues and my Buell as well.
-I don't "get" the worshiping of the faithful or the cult like following HD has somehow developed.
-I don't "get" an "American" company that refuses to compete but instead tucks it's tail and hides behind it's loyal following **cough Buell*cough**. My America hides from no one and savors the opportunity to kick some butt.
-I don't "get" charging a premium price for a product that is no better or worse than the competition in terms of quality but is clearly inferior in terms of performance.
-I don't "get" how despite all of this perople practically line up out the door to buy into the fable that HD is somehow superior to everything else on the road.
Now before all of you with classic bikes get your panties in a bunch, that I get. I get the love, attention and devotion it takes to keep an old vehicle on the road. I show due respect to anyone riding an old shovel or pan. I don't "get" paying big bucks for a new bike that has barely progressed from it's orignial specs. I love my classic Mustang but I would never buy a brand new one if it performed just like my old one, flaws and all.
So, I think I'm done with my "Harley experiment". I still ride though, just not anything associated with the bar and shield. I found a bike that is comfortable, powerful, reliable, and even handles and stops well (try finding a Harley that does all of that). Me and the Busa will be having many a happy mile together I think. For those of you that enjoy your Harleys, ride on. I hope you have many miles woth of good times. As for me though. I just don't "get it".
I fully expect a pile of insults and "don't let the door hit you on the way out" statements as I've made few friends here, to say the least, so go ahead, flame on. I think I'm done here.
My "Harley experiment" began last year when I purchased an 04 XL883C. I knew full well that the 883 would never satisfy in terms of power but I figured, 1200 kits are inexpensive and easy to get so, why not.
Now, there were a lot of things that I did like about that bike. With the mods that were done to it (couple of different seats: Badlander for normal riding and the Harley touring seat for long rides, progressive 13.5" shocks) it was comfortable and looked great. Problem was, it was a gutless dog and had several design flaws, oh excuse me "character" traits, that I didn't like at all.
I started looking into what it would cost to bring it up to a decent power level only to find that the 1200kit was only 1 part of many that it would need. The cost to bring it to a HP level that most bikes achieved 30 years ago was appalling and then it was clear that the brakes and suspension would not be up to the task (they were barely adequate for the 883). After about 6000mi I sold that bike and moved on.
Next I bought a Buell XB12R. I figured, it already had all of the upgrades that the Sportster would require in terms of power and it had a chassis and brakes that would be more than up to the task. I was right about the chassis and brakes, they were some of the best I've ever experianced. I was wrong about the engine. For a bike with such clear sporty intentions that engine was a MAJOR letdown. Just when it started making decent power and becoming fun the rev limiter kicked in and it was all over. More research brought me to the conclusion that the Harley mill was just FAR to limited by it's poor design to make decent power reliably. It was either going to be a money pit, a time bomb or both. It was with a heavy heart that I sold the Buell. There was so much it did well but I just couldn't get past that turd of an engine.
Selling the Buell broke my last tie to Harley Davidson and after my "experiment" I can honestly say that I just don't "get it".
-I don't "get" a company that build it's whole image on being bada** and yet can't build an engine that doesn't get sand kicked in it's face by designs that were obsolete from other makes 20years ago, never mind anything current. Name a Harley and I will show you a similar competitors bike that out performs it and for less cash. The V-Rod is the one brilliant exception to this rule but it was made with help from Porsche and is rejected by "the faithful" so does it really count?.
-I don't "get" design flaws or poor quality that are either passed off as "character" or as being "normal" and I, as the consumer, am supposed to either deal with it or fix it myself. My Sportster had several of these issues and my Buell as well.
-I don't "get" the worshiping of the faithful or the cult like following HD has somehow developed.
-I don't "get" an "American" company that refuses to compete but instead tucks it's tail and hides behind it's loyal following **cough Buell*cough**. My America hides from no one and savors the opportunity to kick some butt.
-I don't "get" charging a premium price for a product that is no better or worse than the competition in terms of quality but is clearly inferior in terms of performance.
-I don't "get" how despite all of this perople practically line up out the door to buy into the fable that HD is somehow superior to everything else on the road.
Now before all of you with classic bikes get your panties in a bunch, that I get. I get the love, attention and devotion it takes to keep an old vehicle on the road. I show due respect to anyone riding an old shovel or pan. I don't "get" paying big bucks for a new bike that has barely progressed from it's orignial specs. I love my classic Mustang but I would never buy a brand new one if it performed just like my old one, flaws and all.
So, I think I'm done with my "Harley experiment". I still ride though, just not anything associated with the bar and shield. I found a bike that is comfortable, powerful, reliable, and even handles and stops well (try finding a Harley that does all of that). Me and the Busa will be having many a happy mile together I think. For those of you that enjoy your Harleys, ride on. I hope you have many miles woth of good times. As for me though. I just don't "get it".
I fully expect a pile of insults and "don't let the door hit you on the way out" statements as I've made few friends here, to say the least, so go ahead, flame on. I think I'm done here.
#250
09-04-2011, 11:11 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
So, on a price point comparison, metrics do not win in all categories imo. I haven't had any mechanical issues yet, so I'm hoping Moco does right by me when they need to. fwiw, BMW has been criticized for not backing their customers just as much, if not more, than Moco. The final drive issue is a disaster for them, and frankly, crossed them off my list for a touring bike - which, btw, would have cost more than my Ultra.
And finally, some things are about more than dollars and cents. Sure, you can sit on your metric cruiser and bask in the knowledge that it was a value. But, you can not tell me that you don't feel a bit emasculated when a Harley pulls up next to you. All of a sudden, that warm, fuzzy feeling turns to envy. Of the two Shadow riders I know, both dream of someday owning a "real" bike. I think you know to what brand I refer.