Nirvana-
I totally appreciate the intentions of this thread but if you really want to learn how to use advanced techniques, you need to enroll in a school or track day where qualified instructors can introduce them to you. This thread is already filled with some very bad advice (and some very good advice). Everyone on the interwebz is an expert (myself included) and there is really no way to separate the **** from shinola.

 

for the life of me I dont know why you guys make riding a dang motorcycle so technical.
I've said it thousands of times if you have to think for a second about what youre doing youre gonna wreck.
Personally, I think one day doing time trials on a flat track or riding a road race course on open track day will teach anyone all the riding skills they need to negotiate turns at speed.
It's not rocket surgery.....
its a given that clark, who wants to ride his new ultra on casual friday instead of his escalade is an accident waiting to happen rather than snake, who belongs to a club that has to ride a motorcycle as a primary means of transportation and logs more than fifty thousand miles a year.
thats another quick answer, want a quick education on riding? join an MC. you get crazy in a curve and crowd someone out and I can promise a quick refresher class will follow.
keep the math and physics in school. this isnt for everyone, thats why they make Vespa's.

 

I should have limited discussion to trail braking, but I thought a discussion of more advanced riding techniques might be of interest.

In my part of the country, we have a lot of twisting mountain roads and canyons with some very tight turns at varying speeds and grades. If you never touch your brakes other than when you're upright and moving straight which is stressed in a basic riding course, you'll end up in the river.

 

Let me add my voice to those calling for rider education. The more you know, the better it gets.

 

Whether they know it or not, everyone countersteers when making a turn anytime they're going over 20 mph. Don't know why it's 20 mph, that's just the way it is. Under 20 mph and you're actually steering the bike (turning the bars left to make a left, and right to make a right).

Trail brake only when you have to. Do it wrong and you could get yourself in trouble.

 

Many ,many years ago in a motorcycle defensive driving course, the term countersteer was taught as an evasive manuever (defensive driving). When changing lanes in a quick manner you are probably using countersteering. Think of the front wheel as a big gyroscope, it wants to stay in the direction it's rolling, bump/push the left handlebar and you will go left at a much quicker rate than just leaning, same for going right. This is usually effective above 20 mph. I interpret trail brake as applying the rear brake during a turn to bleed off some speed and in doing this, in physics, make the bike feel like it's longer, always be aware of the road surface under you. With experience you can do this with the front and make the bike shorter in a turn/curve to get to the apex. Take some advanced rider courses and you'll be amazed at what you can learn.

 

[quote=orangevette;8647380]for the life of me I dont know why you guys make riding a dang motorcycle so technical.
I've said it thousands of times if you have to think for a second about what youre doing youre gonna wreck.

Amen & it ain't brain science either. When I wanna go, I hit the gas. When I wanna turn I just look in that direction, apply a little pressure & I'm turnin'. When I wanna slow down I decelerate or down shift or brake. When I wanna stop I apply the brakes till I'm stopped. If I had to think about all that it'd take my mind off all the yay-hoos out there tryin' to kill me.

 

Used to trail brake quite a bit when dirt bike riding.
Now I use it once in a while usually in slow speed situations where 1st gear is a bit too low and 2nd may be a bit high. I use the rear brake and a little bit of throttle. Most common use for me is in residential areas or extreme twisties in the mountains. I would never use the front brake for this.

 

when I started riding a couple years ago, I couldn't wrap my brain around countersteering because nobody could explain it properly, even in the motorcycle drivers handbook! they always say "steer the opposite way you want to turn". well anyone with a brain knows this is impossible! it wasn't until I read Sonny Barger explain it in one of his books and it clicked, and I thought yeah no ****! I've been doing that for years on bicycles!

if you want to go right you steer left JUST TO GET THE BIKE LEANING ...then procede to turn RIGHT as needed to execute the corner. I think of it as "quickly positioning the tires to the ouside of the curve"

the only reason you can't do this below a certain speed is because the bike would fall over before you get a chance to enter the corner...

there's my 2cents..

 

...as for trailbraking, this thread is the first place I've ever heard the term so I went straight to wikipedia:

Trailbraking is a motorcycle riding and driving technique where the brakes are used beyond the entrance to a turn and are gradually released up to the point of apex.
In a broader scope, trailing off the braking pressure either while straight line braking or, as above, after turn in has begun, allows for a less abrupt and more accurate final corner entry speed adjustment. Some corner entries, such as decreasing radius turns, are more adapted to the leaned over trail braking technique. In turns where a quicker steering action is more applicable, trailing the brake while turning in is unnecessary.


In applying this technique, motorcycle riders approach turns applying front brakes to reduce speed. As they enter the turn, they slowly ease off the brakes, gradually decreasing or trailing off the brakes as motorcycle lean increases. This is done for several reasons.
First, it gives more traction because the downward force on the front tire is increased by load transfer. Second, as the brakes are applied and the weight shifts forward, the forks are compressed. The compression of the forks changes the motorcycles steering geometry, decreasing stability in a way that makes the motorcycle more apt to lean and change direction. Thus, trail braking can be used as method to help the motorcycle change direction. Third, decreasing speed decreases the motorcycle's cornering radius. Conversely, accelerating while turning increases the motorcycles cornering radius.
Fourth, trailing off the brakes while entering blind or tight corners allows the rider to slow if something unexpected blocks the rider's path. Because the motorcycle is already on the brakes and the front tire is getting additional traction from already slowing, the rider can slow even more with very little risk, depending on surface conditions. However, applying the brakes after the motorcycle is already leaned over can be exceedingly risky depending on surface conditions and lean angle.
Traditionally, trail braking is done exclusively with the front brake even though trailing the rear brake will effectively slow the motorcycle, also decreasing the turning radius. If the motorcycle is leaned over, forces from the front brake and the deceleration causes the motorcycle to yaw (lean), while use of the rear brake generates a torque that tends to align (straighten) and stabilize the motorcycle.
The rider's ability to correctly choose his turn in, apex and exit points reduces or eliminates the need for prolonged trailing of the brakes into turns. This technique is commonly used when racing, but can enhance control and add more evasive options for street riders.


Risks;

There is risk with trail braking because excessive use of the front brake can result in a loss of grip as the tire's adhesion is split between braking and cornering forces. Effective trail braking requires finesse from the rider, which can be difficult to learn.


controversy;

Guides such as the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic RiderCourse teach that the safest way for a beginning rider to approach a corner on a motorcycle is by performing all of the slowing before the entrance of the turn, discouraging the use of any brakes while the motorcycle is leaned over. The argument against trail braking on the street, at least for beginners, is that the steep learning curve of trail braking makes it appropriate only for the race track. The benefit of learning trail braking to the street rider is that knowing and understanding how to slow while entering a corner gives a greater safety margin, particularly in blind, decreasing radius or downhill corners.
Prominent motorcycle authorities do not disagree on the technique of trail braking. Keith Code, founder of the California Superbike School teaches that the only way to effectively and accurately direct and turn a motorcycle is with countersteering, in his 1983 book A Twist of the Wrist he states "To tighten a turn and increase your lean angle, you must countersteer again". However, Freddie Spencer, founder of the nowdefunct Freddie Spenser's High Performance Riding School as well as Nick Ienatsch, author of the 2003 book Sport Riding Techniques and chief instructor of Yamaha Champions Riding School argue that trail braking should be used in nearly every corner as a means to help the motorcycle change direction, stating that trail braking gives the rider more control and significantly increases rider safety.
Spencer and Ienatsch agree with the physics of angular acceleration and correctly note that the slower any vehicle is going, the tighter the radius of the corner it can navigate. This is seemingly opposed to Code's writing that, with no change of speed but a tightening in radius, only countersteering can affect the motorcycle's direction. Nevertheless, there is no real contradiction here. Spencer points out that for every radius, motorcycle, and rider combination there is a maximum speed at which the turn can be navigated without exiting the road or suffering a low side crash. Code is saying that as long as this maximum speed is not exceeded, counter steering is the only way to increase lean angle and decrease the radius of ones turn. If Code's method is employed at a speed higher than Spencer's maximum, then a low side crash likely ensues, but if Code's method is not employed as the bike approaches the edge of the road or track then the bike will exit the road or track.