countersteering help
#81
05-18-2011, 11:39 AM
Road Master
did you miss the part where I said "newer riders"??
yeah, just a typo.. had I pushed the other side, I wouldn't be typing this.
yeah, just a typo.. had I pushed the other side, I wouldn't be typing this.
#82
05-18-2011, 11:52 AM
Road Warrior
Pushing the bar forces the bike to lean, and negotiates the curve. Leaning (with no hands) will put the bars in the same position as countersteering.
You have a lot more control of the bike when you counter steer though. You can very precisely control the lean and make minute adjustments. Leaning is not nearly as predictable and a bad way to ride. but as long as you don't influence the bars will get you around a curve. I mentioned it to illustrate a point.
Leaning and holding the bars straight is a just stupid, and I never suggested it.
You have a lot more control of the bike when you counter steer though. You can very precisely control the lean and make minute adjustments. Leaning is not nearly as predictable and a bad way to ride. but as long as you don't influence the bars will get you around a curve. I mentioned it to illustrate a point.
Leaning and holding the bars straight is a just stupid, and I never suggested it.
#83
05-18-2011, 01:53 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Pushing the bar forces the bike to lean, and negotiates the curve. Leaning (with no hands) will put the bars in the same position as countersteering.
You have a lot more control of the bike when you counter steer though. You can very precisely control the lean and make minute adjustments. Leaning is not nearly as predictable and a bad way to ride. but as long as you don't influence the bars will get you around a curve. I mentioned it to illustrate a point.
Leaning and holding the bars straight is a just stupid, and I never suggested it.
You have a lot more control of the bike when you counter steer though. You can very precisely control the lean and make minute adjustments. Leaning is not nearly as predictable and a bad way to ride. but as long as you don't influence the bars will get you around a curve. I mentioned it to illustrate a point.
Leaning and holding the bars straight is a just stupid, and I never suggested it.
#85
05-18-2011, 02:59 PM
Riding a cycle is not as "natural" as some here would think. Ask any MSF instructor for the horror stories of "students without a clue" or those with no natural ability.
When we first start teaching a "swerve," we set up two cones on the right edge of the range. One student at a time drives towards the cones at 15-20 mph. As they pass through the cones, they are instructed to look left as they press (not push!) firmly on the left handlebar, causing the front tire to deflect to the right, causing the cycle to lean and turn to the left. As they continue to press, they make a large arc back to the middle of the course where they stop and are critiqued by the rider coach.
You would not believe how many students did not believe this would work until they tried it. I had an older gentleman, who had ridden all his adult life without a license, adamantly argue with me and other students in class that we were wrong, so I put him at the head of the line on the range. As he passed through the cones, he looked left, but pressed right, and sailed off the course to the right, into the grass. The look on his face was "Priceless." For the rest of the course he paid attention.
Another student was a foreign student at our local college, and struggled with English. He interpreted "Press" as "Push," and when he went through the swerve box, he forcibly pushed on the handle bar, and threw himself off the bike.
A middle aged man was in a class because he had just bought a brand new Harley, and failed to negotiate the very first curve he came to, and went off road into the ditch. He also failed the class. He just didn't have the ability to ride, and never got the hang of countersteering, whether consciously or subconsciously.
When we first start teaching a "swerve," we set up two cones on the right edge of the range. One student at a time drives towards the cones at 15-20 mph. As they pass through the cones, they are instructed to look left as they press (not push!) firmly on the left handlebar, causing the front tire to deflect to the right, causing the cycle to lean and turn to the left. As they continue to press, they make a large arc back to the middle of the course where they stop and are critiqued by the rider coach.
You would not believe how many students did not believe this would work until they tried it. I had an older gentleman, who had ridden all his adult life without a license, adamantly argue with me and other students in class that we were wrong, so I put him at the head of the line on the range. As he passed through the cones, he looked left, but pressed right, and sailed off the course to the right, into the grass. The look on his face was "Priceless." For the rest of the course he paid attention.
Another student was a foreign student at our local college, and struggled with English. He interpreted "Press" as "Push," and when he went through the swerve box, he forcibly pushed on the handle bar, and threw himself off the bike.
A middle aged man was in a class because he had just bought a brand new Harley, and failed to negotiate the very first curve he came to, and went off road into the ditch. He also failed the class. He just didn't have the ability to ride, and never got the hang of countersteering, whether consciously or subconsciously.
#86
05-18-2011, 03:29 PM
Road Warrior
Here is what you DID say. "But, you can absolutely make curves by just leaning. " OK, you did it as a kid on a bicycle and you say you can absolutely do it, so I want to see you do it. Just lean and let your lean do the countersteering for you. Since leaning is all that's needed, and you aren't going to influence the bars, no hands should be no problem. You did it on a bicycle, so let me see you do it on a Harley. I'm not asking for you to negotiate the tail of the dragon. Just a nice simple country road "S" curve. I'll make 1 or 2 suggestions before you try. Pick a road with no on coming traffic and very soft shoulders because I'm betting you'll probably end up in the other lane if you get it to turn enough, then off the road. That's if you make it to the first apex and it's a left, right "S". If you can't get enough lean countersteer into it to make the apex, you'll simply go off the right berm. Since I'm in a betting mood, I'll even place my money on the right berm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94O15cVS8y4
The front tire naturally assumes the counter steer position. It's the path of least resistance.
#87
05-18-2011, 03:49 PM
I just checked youtube, and there are plenty of examples, but this is the most impressive. 300+ mile ride with no hands. I've never done anything anywhere close to that. I just do it on downhills on easy curves. If you had a throttle lock you could do it on flats or uphills, and if you had a foot control for your throttle you could do what this guy is doing.
//
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You said you could do it. Christian Pfeiffer can ride a bike to the top of a building - that doesn't mean I can do it too.
#88
05-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Road Master
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Ok so I have read every page on countersteering on this forum and I am still confused about the concept. I definitely do not doubt it because I tried it last night...deliberately at least. When I tried it just a little bit I found that my bike turned REAL quick so what I need help with is how much pressure do you apply to the handlebars? Also do you need to apply pressure throughout the entire turn or do you just do it to initiate your turns. Kind of crazy I have been riding for a little while and nobody has ever mentioned the term countersteering. I am sure learing how to perfect will be an invaluable lesson so thanks in advance for your responses.
THE CONCEPT IS; when you push the bar (and and also pull the other side - racers do) the tire rolls over to lay the short diameter of the side of the tire on the surface. Take a foam coffee cup, lay it on its side and roll it. That is the concept and it works.
#89
05-18-2011, 04:32 PM
Riding a cycle is not as "natural" as some here would think. Ask any MSF instructor for the horror stories of "students without a clue" or those with no natural ability.
When we first start teaching a "swerve," we set up two cones on the right edge of the range. One student at a time drives towards the cones at 15-20 mph. As they pass through the cones, they are instructed to look left as they press (not push!) firmly on the left handlebar, causing the front tire to deflect to the right, causing the cycle to lean and turn to the left. As they continue to press, they make a large arc back to the middle of the course where they stop and are critiqued by the rider coach.
You would not believe how many students did not believe this would work until they tried it. I had an older gentleman, who had ridden all his adult life without a license, adamantly argue with me and other students in class that we were wrong, so I put him at the head of the line on the range. As he passed through the cones, he looked left, but pressed right, and sailed off the course to the right, into the grass. The look on his face was "Priceless." For the rest of the course he paid attention.
Another student was a foreign student at our local college, and struggled with English. He interpreted "Press" as "Push," and when he went through the swerve box, he forcibly pushed on the handle bar, and threw himself off the bike.
A middle aged man was in a class because he had just bought a brand new Harley, and failed to negotiate the very first curve he came to, and went off road into the ditch. He also failed the class. He just didn't have the ability to ride, and never got the hang of countersteering, whether consciously or subconsciously.
When we first start teaching a "swerve," we set up two cones on the right edge of the range. One student at a time drives towards the cones at 15-20 mph. As they pass through the cones, they are instructed to look left as they press (not push!) firmly on the left handlebar, causing the front tire to deflect to the right, causing the cycle to lean and turn to the left. As they continue to press, they make a large arc back to the middle of the course where they stop and are critiqued by the rider coach.
You would not believe how many students did not believe this would work until they tried it. I had an older gentleman, who had ridden all his adult life without a license, adamantly argue with me and other students in class that we were wrong, so I put him at the head of the line on the range. As he passed through the cones, he looked left, but pressed right, and sailed off the course to the right, into the grass. The look on his face was "Priceless." For the rest of the course he paid attention.
Another student was a foreign student at our local college, and struggled with English. He interpreted "Press" as "Push," and when he went through the swerve box, he forcibly pushed on the handle bar, and threw himself off the bike.
A middle aged man was in a class because he had just bought a brand new Harley, and failed to negotiate the very first curve he came to, and went off road into the ditch. He also failed the class. He just didn't have the ability to ride, and never got the hang of countersteering, whether consciously or subconsciously.
This is a good post. +1
