Do you downshift or use your brakes?
#51
10-24-2006, 02:16 PM
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Both! I use both brakes to get the brake light fired up and downshift in conjunction while slowing. Tend to let the downshift do most of the actual slowing if conditions permit. Like the sounds and like to be in the proper gear for a given speed.....
#52
10-24-2006, 02:22 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Once I read a story from a long time Harley Rider. Titled something like "Spending Dollars to Save Pennies". Basically the wear a tear on the engine is much moe costly than wearing of the brake pads. I use my brake to stop with no engine braking downshifting. I hold in cltuch and downshift transmission at proper speed so I end up in 1st when I stop.
#55
10-24-2006, 02:30 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
You say that you are "taking a chance". I believe that you are SUPPOSED to downshift. I think the bikes are built for it. That is like saying "I would rather push my bike than to accelerate using the throttle because I dont want to take the chance of putting undue strain on my engine"! It is just not logical!
ORIGINAL: QT Hush
I would rather replace brake pads often than replace driveline components even once. Downshifting causes undue stress and wear on the parts that are much more expensive to buy and much, much more difficult to replace than brake pads. You can stretch your primary chain, bend and round off sprocket teeth, and you could break your final drive belt. Personally, I won't take that chance. I'll replace brake pads as often as necessary.
I would rather replace brake pads often than replace driveline components even once. Downshifting causes undue stress and wear on the parts that are much more expensive to buy and much, much more difficult to replace than brake pads. You can stretch your primary chain, bend and round off sprocket teeth, and you could break your final drive belt. Personally, I won't take that chance. I'll replace brake pads as often as necessary.
#56
10-24-2006, 04:20 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: Fmshiner
I think that bikes are built to use a downshifting technique. I would be interested to hear what HD says about it. If anyone can call their HD service tech and ask them, it would be interesting to hear what they have to say.
If they are built to be dounshifted, then there is no harm in doing so. Besides, as I understand it, it is the correct way to ride. Let us know if any of you find out what HD says.
I think that bikes are built to use a downshifting technique. I would be interested to hear what HD says about it. If anyone can call their HD service tech and ask them, it would be interesting to hear what they have to say.
If they are built to be dounshifted, then there is no harm in doing so. Besides, as I understand it, it is the correct way to ride. Let us know if any of you find out what HD says.
ORIGINAL: nine11c2
I do not downshift. I have wrenched cars for years and bikes are no different in concept. Puts pressure on your driveline that wouldn't otherwise be there. Brake pads are much cheaper than transmissions and clutches. I DO try to keep the bike at a gear suitable for accelerating, but I DON'T let out the clutch. Even with modern bike, it's much easier to downshift one gear every 10MPH or so than to go from fifth to first while standing at the stoplight. Not sure about you guys, but if I stop in fifth, my tranny will usually get down to about second before it needs me to put in the clutch a bit and spin things to get all the way down to neutral or first.
I also think on the bike, while downshifting and braking, if your speed is of slightly, you can lock up the rear wheel momentarily. I think you can much more easily modulate the brake.
If you can get the rear brake to lock the rear wheel, then you're really not getting much stopping power out of engine braking (downshifting), and with engine braking you're forced to stop applying while downshifing a number of times.
My MSF guys (thankfully some years ago now) said don't downshift, use your brakes and had reasons similar to mine above.
I do not downshift. I have wrenched cars for years and bikes are no different in concept. Puts pressure on your driveline that wouldn't otherwise be there. Brake pads are much cheaper than transmissions and clutches. I DO try to keep the bike at a gear suitable for accelerating, but I DON'T let out the clutch. Even with modern bike, it's much easier to downshift one gear every 10MPH or so than to go from fifth to first while standing at the stoplight. Not sure about you guys, but if I stop in fifth, my tranny will usually get down to about second before it needs me to put in the clutch a bit and spin things to get all the way down to neutral or first.
I also think on the bike, while downshifting and braking, if your speed is of slightly, you can lock up the rear wheel momentarily. I think you can much more easily modulate the brake.
If you can get the rear brake to lock the rear wheel, then you're really not getting much stopping power out of engine braking (downshifting), and with engine braking you're forced to stop applying while downshifing a number of times.
My MSF guys (thankfully some years ago now) said don't downshift, use your brakes and had reasons similar to mine above.
Second, people used to downshift because they had to to get back down. You'd need to stop and turn the transmission to get into the next lower gear (this was certainly the case in car and truck tranmissions), or the brakes would need the help slowing you down. Newer transmissions and brakes simply don't require that. I believe it's only the "right way to ride" because it's been passed down. I don't believe it's as safe as using brakes only (easier to lock up the rear wheel) so while the equipment has changed, it doesn't make sense to downshift "because you're supposed to".
With just some quick surfing, I found the following from Pat Hahn, who wrote at least one book on riding motorcycles:
Answer -
This is mostly a style/preference issue. Either way is acceptable, though technically, it's best for the bike to keep the clutch squeezed as you downshift to a stop.
There are also those who argue that when you engine brake, technically, the engine and the brakes are working against each other.
Reality is that it doesn't really matter. Unless you're a total ham-fist, I don't think you can really hurt your bike by engine braking.
The following is an excerpt from my new book, "How to Ride a Motorcycle: A Rider's Guide to Strategy, Safety, and Skill Development." You might find it to be perfect reading material at this point in your riding evolution.
"By keeping the clutch squeezed as you come to a stop, this allows the brakes to do most of the work of stopping. In real life, this is good, because the brake light will alert others to your intentions better than engine braking. There are lots of people out there who think braking with the clutch (engine braking) is cool, but the reality is, unless you’re a factory-sponsored racer, brake pads are simpler to replace than clutch pads. Use engine braking for special occasions, not for everyday work."
Good luck and have fun!
This is at http://experts.about.com/q/Motorcycl...shifting-1.htm
#57
10-24-2006, 04:20 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: Fmshiner
You say that you are "taking a chance". I believe that you are SUPPOSED to downshift. I think the bikes are built for it. That is like saying "I would rather push my bike than to accelerate using the throttle because I dont want to take the chance of putting undue strain on my engine"! It is just not logical!
You say that you are "taking a chance". I believe that you are SUPPOSED to downshift. I think the bikes are built for it. That is like saying "I would rather push my bike than to accelerate using the throttle because I dont want to take the chance of putting undue strain on my engine"! It is just not logical!
ORIGINAL: QT Hush
I would rather replace brake pads often than replace driveline components even once. Downshifting causes undue stress and wear on the parts that are much more expensive to buy and much, much more difficult to replace than brake pads. You can stretch your primary chain, bend and round off sprocket teeth, and you could break your final drive belt. Personally, I won't take that chance. I'll replace brake pads as often as necessary.
I would rather replace brake pads often than replace driveline components even once. Downshifting causes undue stress and wear on the parts that are much more expensive to buy and much, much more difficult to replace than brake pads. You can stretch your primary chain, bend and round off sprocket teeth, and you could break your final drive belt. Personally, I won't take that chance. I'll replace brake pads as often as necessary.
#58
10-24-2006, 04:26 PM
Stellar HDF Member
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
clutch always and brakes always..... downshifting into the proper gear allows you to be able to accelerate if you have to.
kinda like sitting at a light in gear- with an escape route planned should you see someone about to rearend you
kinda like sitting at a light in gear- with an escape route planned should you see someone about to rearend you
#59
10-24-2006, 04:30 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
I just spoke to the owner of my dealership who personally built the bike that I purchased for himself. He said that they are bult to be downshifted and it does no harm. As your dealer and / or service tech and I am reasonably sure you will get the same response.
#60
10-24-2006, 04:33 PM
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: Fmshiner
There is a great thread running about using a clutch while upshifting,(and I always do). It made me think about downshifting as well. When I am approaching a light, for example I gradually downshift and sometimes don't even touch my brake until I am almost stopped. Other times I use the brakes very lightly because I want my tail light to come on to warn drivers or riders behind me. I have found that my brakes last much longer than the average life span of brakes.
Of course, if I have to stop more quickly I use only the brakes.
This not only saves the brakes, but it also gives me the feeling of taking a more "active" role in controlling the bike. It also sounds great. I have never noticed or heard of downshifting damaging an engine in any way. I have done this for over 35 years on all types on vehicles including cages. I have always considered it a more advanced form of riding (and driving). I do notice many bikers not using this technique.
Your thoughts?
There is a great thread running about using a clutch while upshifting,(and I always do). It made me think about downshifting as well. When I am approaching a light, for example I gradually downshift and sometimes don't even touch my brake until I am almost stopped. Other times I use the brakes very lightly because I want my tail light to come on to warn drivers or riders behind me. I have found that my brakes last much longer than the average life span of brakes.
Of course, if I have to stop more quickly I use only the brakes.
This not only saves the brakes, but it also gives me the feeling of taking a more "active" role in controlling the bike. It also sounds great. I have never noticed or heard of downshifting damaging an engine in any way. I have done this for over 35 years on all types on vehicles including cages. I have always considered it a more advanced form of riding (and driving). I do notice many bikers not using this technique.
Your thoughts?
Pretty much the same as you do.....