Do you downshift or use your brakes?
#141
11-05-2006, 11:40 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: dynalowride
Here is a reason why engine braking or "downshifting" is needed. This is taken from a pennslyvania experienced motorcycle safety manual.
"There is more to shifting gears than simply getting the motorcycle to pick up speed smoothly. Learning to use the gears when downshifting, turning, or starting on hills is important for safe motorcycle operation.
Shift down through the gears with the clutch as you slow or stop. Remain in firstt gear while you are stopped so that you can move out quickly if you need to. When riding downhill or shifting into first gear(note that they said FIRST gear) you may need to use the brakes to slow enough before downshifting safely. Work towards a smooth, even clutch release, especially when downshifting.
It is best to change gears before entering a turn. However, sometimes shifting while in the turn is neccessary. If so, remember to do so smootly. A sudden change in power to the rear wheel can cause a skid."
The moral of the story is,,,,,,,,if your gonna engine brake which is really the way to ride unless your scared of speed or paranoid of damaging something, you should engine brake(release the clutch SMOOTLY). Except if downshifting to first gear, where you wanna brake first because of tthe first gears ratio of gear teeth compared to other gears. Finally notice, that this whole excerpt if focusing on downshifting, smooth clutch release, and NOT focusing on braking.
ORIGINAL: nine11c2
First, when you have to accelerate you let the clutch out and accelerate. We all downshift to the right gear. The question, listen careful, is whether you engine brake. If you don't engine brake, you save yourself thousands of times putting strain on clutch, tranny, gears, belts, etc. I apprieciate that "I'm wrong in so many ways", and "how can you lock the rear wheel" (catch the wrong gear once, and you will). What I'm asking is, if ENGINE BRAKING is the right way to ride, and you can get as much braking as you need from a modern rear brake, tell me concrete "so many" REASONS why ENGINE BRAKING is better (other than on a long downhill)???
I have heard "it's the right way" and I and others have responded "because 40 years ago you had to because of the horrible tranny's and brakes and it's been passed on". I've heard NO CONCRETE REASONS which kinda proves my point - I say you do it because you learned to do it when you learned to ride at an early age and because those who taught you had to do it on their older bikes. It'(Engine Braking) is just not needed with a modern motorcycle. It's completely optional.
ORIGINAL: dynalowride
I'm sorry butt whoever it is thats saying downshifting or engine braking is bad is so wrong in so many ways. Lets say you just clutch in and brake. If you have to accelerate again what do you do? Release the clutch slowly so the gear engages rightt? Is that not the same thing you are doing when downshifting? If tthis technique is indeed bad for the trannyy or whatever, then man maybe I should justt invent an automatic harley davidson, then my worries will be over. And let me add something else. As long as you dont hit the rev limiter after performing a downshift you are fine. For example, you wouldn't want to be in 6th gear going 60 mph tthen downshift tto 2nd. But from 6th tto 5th then 4th tto 3rd is normal driving. Is it not? Sheesh.
I'm sorry butt whoever it is thats saying downshifting or engine braking is bad is so wrong in so many ways. Lets say you just clutch in and brake. If you have to accelerate again what do you do? Release the clutch slowly so the gear engages rightt? Is that not the same thing you are doing when downshifting? If tthis technique is indeed bad for the trannyy or whatever, then man maybe I should justt invent an automatic harley davidson, then my worries will be over. And let me add something else. As long as you dont hit the rev limiter after performing a downshift you are fine. For example, you wouldn't want to be in 6th gear going 60 mph tthen downshift tto 2nd. But from 6th tto 5th then 4th tto 3rd is normal driving. Is it not? Sheesh.
AS LONG AS THE CLUTCH IS RELEASED SLOWLY HOW THE HELL CAN ONE LOCK UP THE REAR WHEEL?? Clutch in, wait for the revs to fall, cluttch out slowly. How the hell can tthis lock up the rear wheel??? Learn tto ride before postting such idiotic commentts.
I have heard "it's the right way" and I and others have responded "because 40 years ago you had to because of the horrible tranny's and brakes and it's been passed on". I've heard NO CONCRETE REASONS which kinda proves my point - I say you do it because you learned to do it when you learned to ride at an early age and because those who taught you had to do it on their older bikes. It'(Engine Braking) is just not needed with a modern motorcycle. It's completely optional.
"There is more to shifting gears than simply getting the motorcycle to pick up speed smoothly. Learning to use the gears when downshifting, turning, or starting on hills is important for safe motorcycle operation.
Shift down through the gears with the clutch as you slow or stop. Remain in firstt gear while you are stopped so that you can move out quickly if you need to. When riding downhill or shifting into first gear(note that they said FIRST gear) you may need to use the brakes to slow enough before downshifting safely. Work towards a smooth, even clutch release, especially when downshifting.
It is best to change gears before entering a turn. However, sometimes shifting while in the turn is neccessary. If so, remember to do so smootly. A sudden change in power to the rear wheel can cause a skid."
The moral of the story is,,,,,,,,if your gonna engine brake which is really the way to ride unless your scared of speed or paranoid of damaging something, you should engine brake(release the clutch SMOOTLY). Except if downshifting to first gear, where you wanna brake first because of tthe first gears ratio of gear teeth compared to other gears. Finally notice, that this whole excerpt if focusing on downshifting, smooth clutch release, and NOT focusing on braking.
#142
11-06-2006, 04:35 AM
Grand HDF Member
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
I always try to down shift (gently) rather than use the breaks whenever possible because I'm cheep! 
#143
11-06-2006, 11:44 AM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: DenimStreet
So far there are only 2 or 3 guys that don't downshift! Kinda makes you say hmmmmmmm![sm=confused06.gif]
So far there are only 2 or 3 guys that don't downshift! Kinda makes you say hmmmmmmm![sm=confused06.gif]
You agree with all of these so called experts, when all those guys are doing is voicing their opinions according to their experience.
What qualifies those guys as experts anyway?
#144
11-06-2006, 02:27 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Heck, I'm amazed that this thread has gone on for 10 friggin' pages.
I guess that over 40 years of motorsports experience has made me biased.
Downshifting properly, including matching revs on each downshift is the proper way to do things. It's not necessarily easy to do properly and definitely takes some practice.
The ones that don't do this are not necessarily doing it wrong but they are doing it improperly from an efficiency standpoint.
Proper downshifting does not put any undue wear and tear on engine, clutch or transmission.
Improper downshifting can result in over revving the engine, locking the rear tire etc.
I guess that over 40 years of motorsports experience has made me biased.
Downshifting properly, including matching revs on each downshift is the proper way to do things. It's not necessarily easy to do properly and definitely takes some practice.
The ones that don't do this are not necessarily doing it wrong but they are doing it improperly from an efficiency standpoint.
Proper downshifting does not put any undue wear and tear on engine, clutch or transmission.
Improper downshifting can result in over revving the engine, locking the rear tire etc.
#145
11-06-2006, 04:04 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
See, here's the thing; I truly believe, with every fiber of my being, that proper downshifting is the RIGHT way to ride. I refuse to be politically correct and say that I dont't believe that. If that insults you, I'm sorry. That is not my intention. I am simply voicing my honest opinion. I have good reason to believe what I believe and, although I will read your posts and consider what you have to say, it is unlikly that you are going to change what I believe.
I am not trying to change your mind either. If you are happy with the way you ride, great. You really shouldn't care if I think you are riding incorrectly. I'm really OK with that.
I am not trying to change your mind either. If you are happy with the way you ride, great. You really shouldn't care if I think you are riding incorrectly. I'm really OK with that.
ORIGINAL: QT Hush
You continue to say that engine braking is the right and proper way to ride, and in saying that, you are saying that people who don't are riding wrong. That insinuation is what is wrong, because it is a matter of choice.
You agree with all of these so called experts, when all those guys are doing is voicing their opinions according to their experience.
What qualifies those guys as experts anyway?
ORIGINAL: DenimStreet
So far there are only 2 or 3 guys that don't downshift! Kinda makes you say hmmmmmmm![sm=confused06.gif]
So far there are only 2 or 3 guys that don't downshift! Kinda makes you say hmmmmmmm![sm=confused06.gif]
You agree with all of these so called experts, when all those guys are doing is voicing their opinions according to their experience.
What qualifies those guys as experts anyway?
#146
11-06-2006, 06:55 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
put it in neutral and drag my feet. It saves on the clutch, trans, and brakes :~)
#147
11-06-2006, 07:56 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dogtown, Oakland, CA
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: DenimStreet
See, here's the thing; I truly believe, with every fiber of my being, that proper downshifting is the RIGHT way to ride. I refuse to be politically correct and say that I dont't believe that. If that insults you, I'm sorry. That is not my intention. I am simply voicing my honest opinion. I have good reason to believe what I believe and, although I will read your posts and consider what you have to say, it is unlikly that you are going to change what I believe.
I am not trying to change your mind either. If you are happy with the way you ride, great. You really shouldn't care if I think you are riding incorrectly. I'm really OK with that.
See, here's the thing; I truly believe, with every fiber of my being, that proper downshifting is the RIGHT way to ride. I refuse to be politically correct and say that I dont't believe that. If that insults you, I'm sorry. That is not my intention. I am simply voicing my honest opinion. I have good reason to believe what I believe and, although I will read your posts and consider what you have to say, it is unlikly that you are going to change what I believe.
I am not trying to change your mind either. If you are happy with the way you ride, great. You really shouldn't care if I think you are riding incorrectly. I'm really OK with that.
see heres the deal: on a manual transmission vehicle, be it truck, car, or bike, the transmission is always in gear, and the transmission engaged.
other than, warming up the bike in neutral, or sitting at a stop with the clutch in, or doing a panic stop, i cant really think of a good time for the bike to not be in gear and the tranmission engaged.
its not an automatic transmission. you can drive it like one if you want, but dont fool yourself in to thinking that this is all a matter of opinion.
#148
11-06-2006, 10:28 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Ah yes, an intelligent response!
ORIGINAL: dogtownmax
agreed.
see heres the deal: on a manual transmission vehicle, be it truck, car, or bike, the transmission is always in gear, and the transmission engaged.
other than, warming up the bike in neutral, or sitting at a stop with the clutch in, or doing a panic stop, i cant really think of a good time for the bike to not be in gear and the tranmission engaged.
its not an automatic transmission. you can drive it like one if you want, but dont fool yourself in to thinking that this is all a matter of opinion.
ORIGINAL: DenimStreet
See, here's the thing; I truly believe, with every fiber of my being, that proper downshifting is the RIGHT way to ride. I refuse to be politically correct and say that I dont't believe that. If that insults you, I'm sorry. That is not my intention. I am simply voicing my honest opinion. I have good reason to believe what I believe and, although I will read your posts and consider what you have to say, it is unlikly that you are going to change what I believe.
I am not trying to change your mind either. If you are happy with the way you ride, great. You really shouldn't care if I think you are riding incorrectly. I'm really OK with that.
See, here's the thing; I truly believe, with every fiber of my being, that proper downshifting is the RIGHT way to ride. I refuse to be politically correct and say that I dont't believe that. If that insults you, I'm sorry. That is not my intention. I am simply voicing my honest opinion. I have good reason to believe what I believe and, although I will read your posts and consider what you have to say, it is unlikly that you are going to change what I believe.
I am not trying to change your mind either. If you are happy with the way you ride, great. You really shouldn't care if I think you are riding incorrectly. I'm really OK with that.
see heres the deal: on a manual transmission vehicle, be it truck, car, or bike, the transmission is always in gear, and the transmission engaged.
other than, warming up the bike in neutral, or sitting at a stop with the clutch in, or doing a panic stop, i cant really think of a good time for the bike to not be in gear and the tranmission engaged.
its not an automatic transmission. you can drive it like one if you want, but dont fool yourself in to thinking that this is all a matter of opinion.
#149
11-06-2006, 11:33 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
New Thread: Do you Steer your bike or lean?
I lean. Steering may wear out the steering head. I'd like that to last a long time. Do you lean? Leaning is good. I think steerers and Leaners shouldn't hang out together.
Jeez...what a bunch of crap.
Downshift for gods sake....better yet, get a Ridley (www.ridleymotorcycle.com) and you wont have to worry about it anymore.
I lean. Steering may wear out the steering head. I'd like that to last a long time. Do you lean? Leaning is good. I think steerers and Leaners shouldn't hang out together.
Jeez...what a bunch of crap.
Downshift for gods sake....better yet, get a Ridley (www.ridleymotorcycle.com) and you wont have to worry about it anymore.
#150
11-07-2006, 12:36 AM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Is it true on a bike you have to turn right to turn left... and turn left to turn right..!!! I'm soooo confused my head hurts...LOL