Do you downshift or use your brakes?
#111
11-02-2006, 11:58 AM
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: DenimStreet
Good post-but I still disagree.
1-Notice the expert says that he ALWAYS uses engine braking.
2-I downshift and use brakes at the same time thus warning those behind me.
3-I never "suddenly" reverse direction on the drivetrain. I put no more pressure than if I let go of the throttle and the engine "held back" during deceleration. I give a little turn on the throttle to bring up the rpms and there is no excess strain.
4-the expert, when he mentioned that pad are cheaper etc. says "in real life it is better to use brakes". He is saying this because he knows that there are alot of people who don't know how to downshift properly and they ride the clutch or chirp the tires, lock up the wheel etc. He writes that for the idiots but tells you that he "always" uses the engine braking technique.
5-A good engine braking technique is, indeed, the proper, and more advanced, way to ride. Any expert will tell you that.(and any service tech).
Good post-but I still disagree.
1-Notice the expert says that he ALWAYS uses engine braking.
2-I downshift and use brakes at the same time thus warning those behind me.
3-I never "suddenly" reverse direction on the drivetrain. I put no more pressure than if I let go of the throttle and the engine "held back" during deceleration. I give a little turn on the throttle to bring up the rpms and there is no excess strain.
4-the expert, when he mentioned that pad are cheaper etc. says "in real life it is better to use brakes". He is saying this because he knows that there are alot of people who don't know how to downshift properly and they ride the clutch or chirp the tires, lock up the wheel etc. He writes that for the idiots but tells you that he "always" uses the engine braking technique.
5-A good engine braking technique is, indeed, the proper, and more advanced, way to ride. Any expert will tell you that.(and any service tech).
You say engine braking is proper and more advanced. Your opinion, fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
#112
11-02-2006, 12:06 PM
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
PS
Every reason he cites for engine braking are preferences:
1) I find that the engine shifts easier that way. Sometimes if you let the wait too long between rolling off/squeezing and downshifting, it can be kind of clunky or resistant to the change in gear.
- As previously stated, I keep the gear inline with my speed, so I do downshift, just don't engine brake
2) Also, I prefer to always have the clutch engaged and in gear, even when slowing, in case for some reason I need to accelerate.
- In moderate to heavy traffic, twisties, down hill it's a good practice. On wide open roads, light traffic...no benefit IMHO.
3) ...having to ease out the clutch is just another step that costs a slight amount of time.
- In a panic, I can see how this matters. Hopefully most of us don't spend the majority of our riding time in a panic and hopefully, riders are aware enough of their surroundings that they can do things to improve their survivability. ie Engine Braking, Covering the Brakes, Creating Gaps, Looking for escape routes etc.. when those things are needed. The difference between engaged and disengaged in a panic boils down to fractions of a second, and if that's the situation you're in, you probably have bigger problems.
For what it's worth, I always use the engine braking technique except in rare instances. I find that the engine shifts easier that way. Sometimes if you let the wait too long between rolling off/squeezing and downshifting, it can be kind of clunky or resistant to the change in gear. Also, I prefer to always have the clutch engaged and in gear, even when slowing, in case for some reason I need to accelerate...having to ease out the clutch is just another step that costs a slight amount of time.
1) I find that the engine shifts easier that way. Sometimes if you let the wait too long between rolling off/squeezing and downshifting, it can be kind of clunky or resistant to the change in gear.
- As previously stated, I keep the gear inline with my speed, so I do downshift, just don't engine brake
2) Also, I prefer to always have the clutch engaged and in gear, even when slowing, in case for some reason I need to accelerate.
- In moderate to heavy traffic, twisties, down hill it's a good practice. On wide open roads, light traffic...no benefit IMHO.
3) ...having to ease out the clutch is just another step that costs a slight amount of time.
- In a panic, I can see how this matters. Hopefully most of us don't spend the majority of our riding time in a panic and hopefully, riders are aware enough of their surroundings that they can do things to improve their survivability. ie Engine Braking, Covering the Brakes, Creating Gaps, Looking for escape routes etc.. when those things are needed. The difference between engaged and disengaged in a panic boils down to fractions of a second, and if that's the situation you're in, you probably have bigger problems.
#113
11-02-2006, 12:10 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
I agree................to disagree. Your opinion is juat a valuable as mine. Just ride safe and, above all, have fun.
ORIGINAL: jmxp
I don't take the advice of service tech's for very much regarding the mechanics of my bikes let alone riding advice. As far as experts go, like I said, I've been riding for 20+ years, on 7 different motorcycles. I've been down one time (16 years ago) and it was because I was stupid. I think 20 years of on the street riding qualifies my opinion regarding street riding skills expert enough for my own use--and in the case of this thread to offer those who ask. But we both know the line about opinions and at the end of the day, that's what both sides of this fence are...opinions. Under normal braking circumstances, I see 0 value in engine braking.
You say engine braking is proper and more advanced. Your opinion, fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
ORIGINAL: DenimStreet
Good post-but I still disagree.
1-Notice the expert says that he ALWAYS uses engine braking.
2-I downshift and use brakes at the same time thus warning those behind me.
3-I never "suddenly" reverse direction on the drivetrain. I put no more pressure than if I let go of the throttle and the engine "held back" during deceleration. I give a little turn on the throttle to bring up the rpms and there is no excess strain.
4-the expert, when he mentioned that pad are cheaper etc. says "in real life it is better to use brakes". He is saying this because he knows that there are alot of people who don't know how to downshift properly and they ride the clutch or chirp the tires, lock up the wheel etc. He writes that for the idiots but tells you that he "always" uses the engine braking technique.
5-A good engine braking technique is, indeed, the proper, and more advanced, way to ride. Any expert will tell you that.(and any service tech).
Good post-but I still disagree.
1-Notice the expert says that he ALWAYS uses engine braking.
2-I downshift and use brakes at the same time thus warning those behind me.
3-I never "suddenly" reverse direction on the drivetrain. I put no more pressure than if I let go of the throttle and the engine "held back" during deceleration. I give a little turn on the throttle to bring up the rpms and there is no excess strain.
4-the expert, when he mentioned that pad are cheaper etc. says "in real life it is better to use brakes". He is saying this because he knows that there are alot of people who don't know how to downshift properly and they ride the clutch or chirp the tires, lock up the wheel etc. He writes that for the idiots but tells you that he "always" uses the engine braking technique.
5-A good engine braking technique is, indeed, the proper, and more advanced, way to ride. Any expert will tell you that.(and any service tech).
You say engine braking is proper and more advanced. Your opinion, fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
#114
11-02-2006, 08:27 PM
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: DenimStreet
I agree................to disagree. Your opinion is juat a valuable as mine. Just ride safe and, above all, have fun.
I agree................to disagree. Your opinion is juat a valuable as mine. Just ride safe and, above all, have fun.
BTW: It was enjoyable to have a good discussion and walk away 'ok' while disagreeing.
J
#116
11-02-2006, 08:58 PM
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RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Downshift but always use both front and back brakes don't want to develop any bad habits for when some cager does something crazy, and at least once a week practice quick stops at speed that's from 70 down.
#117
11-02-2006, 08:59 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Brakes all the way. Yes we all downshift just to be in the correct gear but the issue is to release the clutch and use engine brakeing. I prefer brakes only.
Jim
Jim
#118
11-02-2006, 09:11 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
ORIGINAL: Fishpart
Downshift but always use both front and back brakes don't want to develop any bad habits for when some cager does something crazy, and at least once a week practice quick stops at speed that's from 70 down.
Downshift but always use both front and back brakes don't want to develop any bad habits for when some cager does something crazy, and at least once a week practice quick stops at speed that's from 70 down.
#119
11-02-2006, 09:14 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
Also in emergency stops you stop quicker just pulling in the clutch and using maximum effort braking
Edit: by maximum effort braking i mean short of locking um up
Edit: by maximum effort braking i mean short of locking um up
#120
11-02-2006, 10:33 PM
RE: Do you downshift or use your brakes?
For me it kinda depends on how fast I am approaching the stop..I usually tend to downshift then brake but if I'm having to stop quicker I will clutch it and just brake.