It is truly a shame this woman lost her life, it doesn't matter who is at fault. Living in the Phoenix area what bothers me is how it was reported. When I heard the report this morning a point was made that the riders weren't wearing helmets. That is fine, I'm sure it is true, but what wasn't reported is what injuries proved to be fatal. There are many tramas that can kill you in a motorcycle accident besides head trama. Whenever a helmetless motorcyclist is killed the point is always made that a helmet wasn't worn. You never hear when a helmeted motorcyclist is killed that they were killed despite wearing a helmet. I'm not saying helmets do not help prevent some head injury, it is just that they are not a cure all in an accident, just as seat belts and air bags do help, but people still die in accidents where they are used. I guess what hacks me off is the media makes it sound like she surely would have survived if she had been wearing a helmet. This very well may not be the case. Sorry, I'm just venting!

 

I agree with you about helmets and how they are always brought up when the riders are not wearing them.

What bothers me is that if there are no charges or even a ticket, that sets a precedent for accidents in the future. People will use it get out of their responsibilities. Granted at the time of the accident, it was sundown and anyone who drives in Phoenix knows if you are driving west you have a difficult time seeing because of the setting sun. And it is just as bad in the morning during the sunrise. After driving in these myself for years, I am glad to work from home and not have to drive during these times.

But that is not an excuse for what happened. If anything, drivers and riders should know to take even more precautions and look around while driving at that time of day. Will the driver learn from the accident and death he caused, I hope so. Will others learn anything from this if there is no repercussions, doubtful.

 

My condolences to their friends and family.

There may be a reason why there were no charges or tickets filed immediately. I do not remember where I read it, but I've read somewhere that it may be easier for the local prosecutor to file charges later if there are no tickets written immediately. Let's wait and see what happens.

I do feel they should be charged with something when a life is lost due to the driver not paying attention.

 

I don't think the article says anything about the driver not getting ticketed. It only says, "Investigators say the 22-year-old driver of the vehicle was not impaired at the time of the crash. He is not expected to be charged because he wasn't negligent."

I would bet that the driver does get a failure to yield citation. Sometimes the media does not tell the complete story.

 

I did not say that it would be your fault.

But sometimes we need to take responsibility for our own safety to a certain extent.

I wanted to avoid this, but if you are going to always assign negligence and fault to a driver who did not see a motorcyclist and was not texting, talking on the phone, eating, etc, etc.... if you are going to assign blame for someone simply not seeing a motorcyclist, what you are going to have to accept laws regarding hi-viz clothing and helmets, and maybe even bike fairing color. Or juries and/or judges gaining the ability to discriminate against a biker in an accident due to their lack of hi-viz clothing. Or even worse, prepare yourself to be sued when YOU get hit by someone who gets a good lawyer who will sue you for being an invisible missile hurling down the highway.


I don't know the particulars of this specific accident, so I won't and can't comment on this one, but generally speaking, I do not think it is fair when a rider wearing black clothing, on a dark bike, wearing either no helmet or a gray or black helmet, should be surprised when a driver claims to not have seen them.

As motorcyclists, we don't get to ride around in colors that blend with the color of the road and then blame drivers for not seeing us.

There's always that too.

Idk, in this hypothetical you mention, are you dressed so as to blend in with the pavement and surroundings and become essentially an invisible vehicle with a single headlight that makes it very hard for motorists to judge your distance?

You say "3 feet in front of you" and surely that would make for a different story, but I think I have some good points.

 

My wife gets a red light camera ticket for going through a stop light 0.5 seconds late and 13 mph UNDER the speed limit in rush hour stop and go traffic and has to pay a big fine and go to traffic survival school. This clown fails to yield, kills someone and badly injures another, and doesn't even get a ticket? What's wrong with this picture?

RIP Kimmy and get well soon Tapper!

 

Motorcycles are the only vehicle I know of that are required by law to run headlights during the daylight hours. Not knowing everything about the circumstances in this accident, it is hard to make a judgement as to what the causes were. I say causes because as a safety professional having investigated numerous industrial accidents I can assure you there was probably more than one thing that led to this accident. I can also assure you that Hi-Viz clothing would not have prevented it. If they can't see the headlight they damn sure won't see a Hi-Viz vest.

 

+1 It's getting so we all know or knew folks who were in serious accidents of this sort. A major problem we all struggle with is speeding, it's fun to go fast on a motorcycle. Sometimes people can't judge whether the motorcycle is doing the 35MPH speed limit or 60. They think they got plenty of time to make that turn .... sucks for everybody

 

It is difficult to judge the distance from one headlight, or even two that are close together.

Nobody can't say what would have prevented this, aside from the driver not turning left. But you absolutely can not say that hi viz clothing might not have helped.

This is not to blame the victim. My prayers and condolences to them and their families.

for all I know, they were wearing conspicuous clothing anyway.

I jsut think that if you ride a motorcycle that is a tiny fraction of the size of everything else on the road, and on top of that you wear road camo, I don't think we should automatically ruin someone's life for not seeing you. That's all I"m saying.

 

"driver failed to yield"

???????He is not expected to be charged because he wasn't negligent.
?????


yes he was, negligent to yeild stupid @$$hole reporter, cops. this is the crap that pisses me off.