It's not an argument. It's a fact. Having been a computer network engineer for the last 25 years, I have dealt with many many different battery technologies. Lithium batteries *DO* develop a memory just like the old NiCad ones did. It just takes a little longer.

 

How many Lithium batteries would you like me to send you before you're convinced that I am, in fact, correct? I have a drawer full of dead cell phone batteries that are Lithium and about a dozen or so laptop batteries.

 

This is correct, the lithium iron phosphate battery (LiFePO4)differs from the lithium-ion battery. There are also companies experimenting with the lithium-ion polymer battery technology for vehicle applications. Don’t confuse the different applications, the batteries constructed for vehicles are designed differently then those that are designed for consumer electronics such as cell phones and laptops. The materials are much the same but construction is way different.

I come from the battery industry, I was in it for 17 years. I worked for one of the pioneer companies that developed the gel technology and then later on, the AGM. Each one of these technologies, as they evolved, took time for the public to accept over the traditional antimony alloy, wet cell, lead acid battery that we were all used to. There was great resistance going forward each time newer, better technologies surfaced. And now the standard in which many find comfort in is the AGM, the very technology that we almost had to force down the consumers throat back in the 80’s.

The lithium technology is still evolving and it’s getting better every day. It’s technology is being applied to the electric vehicle industry and it will more than likely replace the lead-acid battery in starting applications in all vehicles. It has tremendous advantages and potential over the lead-acid battery. It can provide the same energy storage at a fraction of the size and weight. It’s safer to use, recharge and much less toxic then the lead-acid battery.

Face it, the lead-acid battery is on it’s way out, and it should. Within the battery industry and with all of the new technologies that are currently available and the ones on the horizon, the lead-acid battery is becoming a dinosaur.

I picked up and held a lithium battery at the HD dealer the other day, they had them on display. I was quite impressed at the size and weight. I don’t need a battery right now but I will certainly give the new lithium a try when it comes time.

 

I love the new battery technologies, they have revolutionized model flying, one of my other long time hobbies. The two biggest holdbacks of motorcycle use, personaly, are, nunber one, I don't at this time need a battery and, number two, the current cost. If, by the time I need a new battery for one of the bikes the cost comes down, I will certainly consider a lithium battery. If it doesn't, it's back to the old reliable AGM.

 

At $186 I'd say the new technology Lithium battery is competitive with lead acids that run anywhere from about $60 to around $300 ( JP Cycles inventory). A BIG advantage is losing 10-15 lbs. of weight and with comparable starting power that is saying something. As with any new technology it is continually changing and improving in design and price. Anyone remember when hand held calculators first came out in the early 1970's?? The "scientific" calculators were around $400. Now you can get one for about $10 or less.

Considering the Lithium motorcycle batteries are relatively new I'd say the price tag is very competitive.

 

I know for a FACT that when I wear blue socks, it rains. The other day I had blue socks on, and it rained. Proof!

 

I use AGM batteries in all my bikes and am very satisfied. Just be careful who you buy it from. I bought one from Bikebatts.com and it failed at about 18 months. When I tried to get it exchanged he tried to sell me a higher price battery. I questioned the warranty and prorated amount and he got mad at me and said any further correspondences will be by email and hung up on me. I did not demand anything and he did not offer a reduction in shipping and did not question my using a battery tender. This is an email from the owner, "First, you did not follow recommended charging instruction. This most likely resulted in premature failure of the battery. None the less I said we would cover the battery under the warranty policy. In addition, I agreed to waive the requirement for you to return the battery. Third, I gave you a reduced rate for warranty shipping. Next, you wanted me to give you 50% credit for a product you did not purchase. Further, you stated the 50% credit for the product you did purchase was not enough. Then you accused me of being unreasonable. Think about what transpired through this conversation. Your dogmatic, unreasonable, insulting attitude left no room for further discussion. Thus, the end to the call.
I treat reasonable people in a reasonable way.
I hope someone else enjoys your business.
Tim

I took my business elsewhere.
Russ

Try Royal Battery Co.
www.RoyalBattery.com

 

That's due to a loss of actual maximum capacity, not due to a memory effect. It's simple physics. As the cells age, they lose capacity. In a lithium ion battery this can be due to excessive heat, multiple cycles, excessive discharge, or excessive charge. A lithium ion battery will last longer if you constantly cycle it between 40 and 70% charge (which is what's being done on the Chevy Volt to maximize battery life.) If it had a memory effect, then cycling between 40 and 70 would be worse than cycling between, say, 10 and 100% charge, but it's just the opposite.

Do you want me to explain to you how permanent deposits form and inhibit ion transport? Do you know what an ion even is?

Read through this and gain an understanding of the subject:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/cr020730k

If that's too detailed for you, there's always Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_effect

The best way to store lithium ion batteries is at ~40% and about 40 degrees fahrenheit. If they suffered from a memory effect, then this would actually be the worst thing you could do. But out here in the real world it's the best.

 

While model flyers are no where the largest users of Lithium batteries, I dought any one is rougher on them. As a group we have found that if you go below 80% on discharge you drastically reduce the life of these batteries. If you dicharge at a very high rate the number of cycles is is also greatly reduced. As the battery reaches the end of its life, say the last 20 to 30%, you start notice a decreased flight time and a reduced current output. Some may percieve that to be a memory effect but it is just the batteries way of showing that it is about worn out. Nothing like the memory effect we used to have on ni-cads years ago. Even that problem has went away for the most part, the newer ni- cads show little memort effect.

 

Percentage of capacity used isn't really relevant, it's the voltage drop allowed under load. If you're pushing too hard for too long, you will go well below 3v per cell under load and that is where damage will happen. My transmitter that has a 2200mAh battery but only draws .1A during use can run over 2000mAh of use all day long but never get close to 3v per cell and will last for years without problem. Take the same battery in a plane drawing 40A and I can't pull that kind of capacity without going significantly under 3v per cell under load and that will severely shorten it's life span.