Major complaint with Fox Creek Leather Custom Jacket
#1
01-30-2011, 12:31 PM
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Major complaint with Fox Creek Leather Custom Jacket
Big Problem with Fox Creek Leather Grayson Custom Jacket
This is not intended as a smear of Fox Creek Leather or its products. It is, however, a caution for anyone looking to get one of their jackets custom fitted. Like a lot of people, I made the decision to purchase a Fox Creek Grayson jacket at least in part from reading all of the positive reviews I found on this and other web sights. That is why I feel an obligation to post this.
Let me start by saying I have no complaints about the quality of their product, the workmanship, turnaround time, etc. I also believe that if you are satisfied with the stock look of their jackets and can find a stock jacket that fits the way you like, then you should buy it. I expect you will be very satisfied. The reason I say if you find one that fits is because they are somewhat inconsistent in their sizing. Two jackets of the same size aren’t necessarily the same exact size. In fact, an employee told me there can be up to 1/2” difference in any dimension between any two jackets of the same size. That is probably because they don’t actually make their own jackets but farm out the work to independent contractors. So the size differences can be understood. However, if it is a stock jacket you are dealing with, no worries. As advertised, and reviewed, if the first jacket they send doesn’t fit you can just order another and they will send it right out. You end up paying shipping both directions after the first jacket, but that is a small price to pay to get one that fits. And only fair in my opinion.
So what is my “Big Problem?” If you order a jacket custom fitted and they screw it up, you are the one who is screwed. I made inquiries back in November and spoke with an employee who was very helpful, but who unfortunately left the company before I called back a couple of weeks later to order a jacket. What I did order was a 42L with some style changes made to it. From the time of my first call I explained that length was a big concern and never considered anything but the L size. I was told a 42L w/out a kidney panel would be 27.5” long in the back. So they sent me a 42L to try on. It was basically perfect size-wise except the sleeves were long. (With hands at my sides the sleeves came down almost to the knuckles on my fingers. I had someone slide a ruler 2” up the end of the sleeves on my hand and that brought the length to an inch above the knuckles on my hands.) The chest was perfect. The waist was a little big so I asked if they could take an inch out of it but no more. I have a 40.5” chest and 33” waist. So I sent the jacket back, specifically asked, in writing, to start with a 42L and make those two adjustments to sizing, plus the style changes I wanted. Those included deleting the kidney panel, reflective piping, side snaps, armor pockets, and adding a matching breast pocket to the right side.
I need to say here that I spent a week trying the trial jacket on, always inside my house and with clean clothes on. I tried it with and w/out the liner, with just a long sleeve T, with a heavy, hooded sweatshirt, etc. I measured it, I allowed my son to try it on, other people saw me in it. I made very careful note of how it fit, how far down it came in front as well as back, etc.
So I sent it back with my order and a couple of weeks later my jacket is done and they send it out. I’m 53 years old and yet I can’t remember being as excited looking forward to receiving something as I was to receive my custom Grayson jacket. And so I have to say that I also can’t remember being as disappointed as I was when I opened the box, held up the jacket, and my son and I both said “ Holy crap, look how small it is.” I didn’t even have to try it on to see a big mistake had been made. But I did, and immediately had some pictures taken. First off, it was a 42R and fit like one. The jacket was a good 1”-2” shorter in front, the sleeves barely reached my wrists, literally, and the overall jacket was extremely tight. Even with just the same long sleeve T I had worm when I tried the trial jacket on, it was much tighter than the trial jacket had been with the hoodie on. The trial jacket completely covered the long sleeve T up. You can see in the pictures that the custom jacket didn’t come close. And I didn’t do anything to make things look worse than they were. I didn’t have to. I just put the jacket on. I also know where the trial jacket came down to on my jeans. This one was considerably shorter in every way.
I immediately contacted Fox Creek and spoke with Rachel, who seemed genuinely concerned with me being satisfied with my purchase. Unfortunately, that was the last contact I had with her. I sent the jacket back and it was taken over by the same person who apparently took the measurements and ordered the jacket in the first place. She was, and still is, adamant that she couldn’t have made a mistake and that the jacket they made was the same size as the trial jacket. She sent me an email with measurements showing the custom jacket being 4” smaller in the chest than the trial jacket but then said she just made a mistake in the email. Yet she could not have made a mistake in her measurements. So I guess I just imagined the custom jacket not fitting? And so did the other people who saw me in it? And tried both jackets on themselves? The only person it came close to fitting was my 5’8” 135lb sister. It was tight and short on my 5’10” 160 lb son. I am 6’1/2” and about 178. Look at the pictures and tell me that is a 42L. Oh, that reminds me. It wasn’t a 42L. The person who put the order through, on her own and without even notifying me, let alone asking, substituted a 42R into the equation in order to save me $41.00 I never asked to be saved. This was never brought up until after I returned the jacket. Yet there was still no mistake on their end. According to her the jackets were exactly the same. Again, all of us on this end just imagined the custom jacket didn’t fit.
The sad thing is I feel if someone else, who was less defensive, had been involved, it could have been worked out. The jacket they made was beautiful, it just didn’t fit. I was not ready to give up on Fox Creek and would have even been willing to pay a little more money to get it all right. But that was not an option, they were right and infallible, and I just imagined that the custom jacket, the 42R, fit differently than the trial jacket, the 42L. In fairness, the woman involved did offer to swap out the sleeves for better fitting ones. And if that had been the only issue I would have gladly taken them up on that offer. Again, I really wanted the Grayson. But it wasn’t just the sleeves. The entire jacket was smaller and shorter.
So what is the lesson I learned the hard way that I am trying to impart to anyone taking the time to read this? Is it to avoid Fox Creek Leather at all costs? No. Like I said above, if you find a stock jacket you are comfortable with, go for it. But if you want one modified, be very, very careful! Protect yourself. Go to a tailor and have your measurements taken and then tell them what dimensions to make the jacket. That way if your jacket comes back an inch or two shorter, tighter, etc. than you ordered, you might have some recourse. But I wouldn’t count on it. I asked for a Long and they made me a Regular. It didn't fit, yet it was my problem.
In the end, how did they handle it? They took the jacket back minus a 20%, or $98., restocking fee. I suppose I should be thankful because otherwise I would have been stuck with a jacket so small I couldn’t even give it to my son. I am a high school science teacher and lacrosse coach. But I used to be a small business owner. How would I have handled this situation? I would have said: “'K', you are clearly not happy with this transaction. We feel we did a good job making the jacket, but you obviously disagree. Would you be willing to pay us another $50. or $100. to help cover some of our costs in making the custom jacket that didn’t fit? We could then put that jacket in our store to sell and make you one to the specifications you want.” In that way we would both have had to absorb something. Whether I agreed to it or not would have been less important than being left with the impression they actually did care about their customers’ satisfaction. Unfortunately, they never even explored the option of trying to meet me halfway or to make me satisfied. They were right, I was wrong. Heck of way to run a business.
This is not intended as a smear of Fox Creek Leather or its products. It is, however, a caution for anyone looking to get one of their jackets custom fitted. Like a lot of people, I made the decision to purchase a Fox Creek Grayson jacket at least in part from reading all of the positive reviews I found on this and other web sights. That is why I feel an obligation to post this.
Let me start by saying I have no complaints about the quality of their product, the workmanship, turnaround time, etc. I also believe that if you are satisfied with the stock look of their jackets and can find a stock jacket that fits the way you like, then you should buy it. I expect you will be very satisfied. The reason I say if you find one that fits is because they are somewhat inconsistent in their sizing. Two jackets of the same size aren’t necessarily the same exact size. In fact, an employee told me there can be up to 1/2” difference in any dimension between any two jackets of the same size. That is probably because they don’t actually make their own jackets but farm out the work to independent contractors. So the size differences can be understood. However, if it is a stock jacket you are dealing with, no worries. As advertised, and reviewed, if the first jacket they send doesn’t fit you can just order another and they will send it right out. You end up paying shipping both directions after the first jacket, but that is a small price to pay to get one that fits. And only fair in my opinion.
So what is my “Big Problem?” If you order a jacket custom fitted and they screw it up, you are the one who is screwed. I made inquiries back in November and spoke with an employee who was very helpful, but who unfortunately left the company before I called back a couple of weeks later to order a jacket. What I did order was a 42L with some style changes made to it. From the time of my first call I explained that length was a big concern and never considered anything but the L size. I was told a 42L w/out a kidney panel would be 27.5” long in the back. So they sent me a 42L to try on. It was basically perfect size-wise except the sleeves were long. (With hands at my sides the sleeves came down almost to the knuckles on my fingers. I had someone slide a ruler 2” up the end of the sleeves on my hand and that brought the length to an inch above the knuckles on my hands.) The chest was perfect. The waist was a little big so I asked if they could take an inch out of it but no more. I have a 40.5” chest and 33” waist. So I sent the jacket back, specifically asked, in writing, to start with a 42L and make those two adjustments to sizing, plus the style changes I wanted. Those included deleting the kidney panel, reflective piping, side snaps, armor pockets, and adding a matching breast pocket to the right side.
I need to say here that I spent a week trying the trial jacket on, always inside my house and with clean clothes on. I tried it with and w/out the liner, with just a long sleeve T, with a heavy, hooded sweatshirt, etc. I measured it, I allowed my son to try it on, other people saw me in it. I made very careful note of how it fit, how far down it came in front as well as back, etc.
So I sent it back with my order and a couple of weeks later my jacket is done and they send it out. I’m 53 years old and yet I can’t remember being as excited looking forward to receiving something as I was to receive my custom Grayson jacket. And so I have to say that I also can’t remember being as disappointed as I was when I opened the box, held up the jacket, and my son and I both said “ Holy crap, look how small it is.” I didn’t even have to try it on to see a big mistake had been made. But I did, and immediately had some pictures taken. First off, it was a 42R and fit like one. The jacket was a good 1”-2” shorter in front, the sleeves barely reached my wrists, literally, and the overall jacket was extremely tight. Even with just the same long sleeve T I had worm when I tried the trial jacket on, it was much tighter than the trial jacket had been with the hoodie on. The trial jacket completely covered the long sleeve T up. You can see in the pictures that the custom jacket didn’t come close. And I didn’t do anything to make things look worse than they were. I didn’t have to. I just put the jacket on. I also know where the trial jacket came down to on my jeans. This one was considerably shorter in every way.
I immediately contacted Fox Creek and spoke with Rachel, who seemed genuinely concerned with me being satisfied with my purchase. Unfortunately, that was the last contact I had with her. I sent the jacket back and it was taken over by the same person who apparently took the measurements and ordered the jacket in the first place. She was, and still is, adamant that she couldn’t have made a mistake and that the jacket they made was the same size as the trial jacket. She sent me an email with measurements showing the custom jacket being 4” smaller in the chest than the trial jacket but then said she just made a mistake in the email. Yet she could not have made a mistake in her measurements. So I guess I just imagined the custom jacket not fitting? And so did the other people who saw me in it? And tried both jackets on themselves? The only person it came close to fitting was my 5’8” 135lb sister. It was tight and short on my 5’10” 160 lb son. I am 6’1/2” and about 178. Look at the pictures and tell me that is a 42L. Oh, that reminds me. It wasn’t a 42L. The person who put the order through, on her own and without even notifying me, let alone asking, substituted a 42R into the equation in order to save me $41.00 I never asked to be saved. This was never brought up until after I returned the jacket. Yet there was still no mistake on their end. According to her the jackets were exactly the same. Again, all of us on this end just imagined the custom jacket didn’t fit.
The sad thing is I feel if someone else, who was less defensive, had been involved, it could have been worked out. The jacket they made was beautiful, it just didn’t fit. I was not ready to give up on Fox Creek and would have even been willing to pay a little more money to get it all right. But that was not an option, they were right and infallible, and I just imagined that the custom jacket, the 42R, fit differently than the trial jacket, the 42L. In fairness, the woman involved did offer to swap out the sleeves for better fitting ones. And if that had been the only issue I would have gladly taken them up on that offer. Again, I really wanted the Grayson. But it wasn’t just the sleeves. The entire jacket was smaller and shorter.
So what is the lesson I learned the hard way that I am trying to impart to anyone taking the time to read this? Is it to avoid Fox Creek Leather at all costs? No. Like I said above, if you find a stock jacket you are comfortable with, go for it. But if you want one modified, be very, very careful! Protect yourself. Go to a tailor and have your measurements taken and then tell them what dimensions to make the jacket. That way if your jacket comes back an inch or two shorter, tighter, etc. than you ordered, you might have some recourse. But I wouldn’t count on it. I asked for a Long and they made me a Regular. It didn't fit, yet it was my problem.
In the end, how did they handle it? They took the jacket back minus a 20%, or $98., restocking fee. I suppose I should be thankful because otherwise I would have been stuck with a jacket so small I couldn’t even give it to my son. I am a high school science teacher and lacrosse coach. But I used to be a small business owner. How would I have handled this situation? I would have said: “'K', you are clearly not happy with this transaction. We feel we did a good job making the jacket, but you obviously disagree. Would you be willing to pay us another $50. or $100. to help cover some of our costs in making the custom jacket that didn’t fit? We could then put that jacket in our store to sell and make you one to the specifications you want.” In that way we would both have had to absorb something. Whether I agreed to it or not would have been less important than being left with the impression they actually did care about their customers’ satisfaction. Unfortunately, they never even explored the option of trying to meet me halfway or to make me satisfied. They were right, I was wrong. Heck of way to run a business.
#2
01-30-2011, 01:20 PM
you could always cut your hands off and it will fit great...
if you want custom buy a langlitz jacket. fox creek should probably be only for off the rack.
if you want custom buy a langlitz jacket. fox creek should probably be only for off the rack.
#4
01-30-2011, 01:34 PM
This is a big reason why I went with Langlitz. You're family for life when you buy from them and I don't have to worry about issue like this. Extremely poor example of customer service not to make this right with you.
#5
01-30-2011, 02:24 PM
Ordering clothing regardless of what it is for online or over the phone is an exercise in futility. Especially if you have specific measurements.
You are right you should have gone to a tailor and had all your measurements taken. I won't agree or disagree with you or Fox Creek. I understand costs involved in re-altering a coat especially leather.
JMHO
You are right you should have gone to a tailor and had all your measurements taken. I won't agree or disagree with you or Fox Creek. I understand costs involved in re-altering a coat especially leather.
JMHO
#6
01-30-2011, 02:29 PM
Nice jacket. Looks like you took it from one of your smaller freshman students.
Sending these pics to Fox Creek should have been more than enough to make things right.
PS - welcome to the forum...
Sending these pics to Fox Creek should have been more than enough to make things right.
PS - welcome to the forum...
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#8
01-30-2011, 02:46 PM
great way to start with forum. WELCOME
a similar thing happened between my former gf and Fox over a set of chaps.
HOWEVER - Fox paid for us to send them back, took them apart and reduced the waistline, reassembled and set them back - FREE!
so, I'm wondering if you came across as a jerk, or demanding..... and makes me wonder what your agenda is.
a similar thing happened between my former gf and Fox over a set of chaps.
HOWEVER - Fox paid for us to send them back, took them apart and reduced the waistline, reassembled and set them back - FREE!
so, I'm wondering if you came across as a jerk, or demanding..... and makes me wonder what your agenda is.
#9
01-30-2011, 03:04 PM
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Guess I do not see an agenda. Think he laid out things pretty straightforward IMO. Most folks on here seem to recommend Fox leathers. He tried and it did not work in his situation. His advise is just the adage "let the buyer beware".
