Would you have bought a Harley if...
#41
A few of us were talking about that on the Sportster forum recently. Turns out, that stereotype died back in the '80s. Harley's made a lot more technological advancements popular than most other manufacturers.
Off the top of your head, can you name another motorcycle manufacturer whose entire lineup (including their smallest bikes) has EFI? Harley is, to my knowledge, the first company to embrace that new technology this wholly and completely.
Off the top of your head, can you name another motorcycle manufacturer whose entire lineup of street-legal bikes was all either shaft-driven or Kevlar/Aramid/carbon-fiber belt driven before Harley? Most other manufacturers have been trying to get away from chains for a while, but it's Harley that made it so popular. Victories, Yamahas, etc. would probably still be chain-driven if Harley hadn't pushed the development of belts made from modern materials and worked out a lot of the kinks.
There are more examples: dual-compound tires stock on tourers, disc brakes all around (hell, Honda's knockoff of the Sportster still has a drum brake on the rear, and it even costs more than an entry-level Sporty!), fly-by-wire throttle control, ABS... turns out Harley is just really good at picking which new technologies actually improve usability and maintainability, and eschew the "tech-for-tech's sake" "upgrades."
And of course, we're all out buying them. We don't stick our noses in the air and refuse to buy them because they've moved on past cables, carbs, points ignition, and all that crap. Harley customers like it modern... but only when there's a good reason for it! Don't stick a radiator on my engine; I don't want to have to check yet another fluid, fix yet another source of leaks, and have yet another periodic maintenance to perform. But yes I do like my oil-free belt drive, thank-you-very-much!
Off the top of your head, can you name another motorcycle manufacturer whose entire lineup (including their smallest bikes) has EFI? Harley is, to my knowledge, the first company to embrace that new technology this wholly and completely.
Off the top of your head, can you name another motorcycle manufacturer whose entire lineup of street-legal bikes was all either shaft-driven or Kevlar/Aramid/carbon-fiber belt driven before Harley? Most other manufacturers have been trying to get away from chains for a while, but it's Harley that made it so popular. Victories, Yamahas, etc. would probably still be chain-driven if Harley hadn't pushed the development of belts made from modern materials and worked out a lot of the kinks.
There are more examples: dual-compound tires stock on tourers, disc brakes all around (hell, Honda's knockoff of the Sportster still has a drum brake on the rear, and it even costs more than an entry-level Sporty!), fly-by-wire throttle control, ABS... turns out Harley is just really good at picking which new technologies actually improve usability and maintainability, and eschew the "tech-for-tech's sake" "upgrades."
And of course, we're all out buying them. We don't stick our noses in the air and refuse to buy them because they've moved on past cables, carbs, points ignition, and all that crap. Harley customers like it modern... but only when there's a good reason for it! Don't stick a radiator on my engine; I don't want to have to check yet another fluid, fix yet another source of leaks, and have yet another periodic maintenance to perform. But yes I do like my oil-free belt drive, thank-you-very-much!
Btw... wasn't the Honda Goldwing the first successful shaft driven bike? Not trying to deny your post just confused if I am mixing up on my memory or not.
#42
Harley made a lot of dirt/scooter etc type bikes that Harley owners bought up. So does this thread say that if today Harley brought back some of the other stuff (which I personally would find cool, regardless of where it was made) that a lot of you wouldn't buy it? I personally think it would sell amazingly well
Last edited by motordrum; 11-28-2010 at 07:35 PM.
#44
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Off the top of your head, can you name another motorcycle manufacturer whose entire lineup of street-legal bikes was all either shaft-driven or Kevlar/Aramid/carbon-fiber belt driven before Harley?
BMW
and yer missing my point 357. Harley regularly introduced new models that were much more than adding some chrome or lowering an existing model. Big difference from whats being done today.
I'm not knocking Harley in this thread. I'm defending their history, and pointing out the majority of Harley riders today don't want change or new models, and that attitude ends up hurting Harley. Moco becomes the victim because of limited thinking, something the company has never had to deal with before.
BMW
and yer missing my point 357. Harley regularly introduced new models that were much more than adding some chrome or lowering an existing model. Big difference from whats being done today.
I'm not knocking Harley in this thread. I'm defending their history, and pointing out the majority of Harley riders today don't want change or new models, and that attitude ends up hurting Harley. Moco becomes the victim because of limited thinking, something the company has never had to deal with before.
Last edited by schumacher; 11-28-2010 at 07:47 PM.
#45
amazing
this thread is wonderful..If only Black and Decker,IBM, and a few other manufactures had "kept the illusion of made in America"
Harley has done a great job of waving the Flag..
My 1991 sportie has a frame designed ,made in America..
However the evolution engine is designed in Japan
Has a Kehin carb (japanese)
the electrics are all Japanese, as is the suspension. (,I/E showa) Most of the parts are made in Mexico ,as are the mercury outboard(american outboard)
point is , nothing is totaly made in america anymore , so get over that crap.
I own two HD's (91 sportie,03 Fatboy) because they re-sell good .
But my favorite bike is a old Honda CX500 , cause it dont break, or make me spend foolish money to make it custom ,( if you put lipstick on a pig , it is still a pig) go figgure.
back in the fifties, the good bikes were " limey bikes"
BSA,Triump,Areial..
If you wanted to ride , then that's what you bought.
The HD's were oil leaking( on the showroom floor) ,heavy and only old guy's/ and police bought them . .
.
Now to the future!!!
HD has done a outstanding job of advertising, supported by dyed in the wool loyalest bikers..( I am one of them )
IT does have a mystic about it
Where else can you get 50 year old suspension design , vibrating engine that has to be rubber-mounted, and a unbalanced engine(fires both cylinders on the same crank revolution?
(think they added counterbalance"bandaid" on some) way too heavy to flick around corners, wobbles in curves, and has marginal brakes?
All This said , I do like to feel the vibes , and only have owned them since 1956
I cant explain it !!!!
Harley has done a great job of waving the Flag..
My 1991 sportie has a frame designed ,made in America..
However the evolution engine is designed in Japan
Has a Kehin carb (japanese)
the electrics are all Japanese, as is the suspension. (,I/E showa) Most of the parts are made in Mexico ,as are the mercury outboard(american outboard)
point is , nothing is totaly made in america anymore , so get over that crap.
I own two HD's (91 sportie,03 Fatboy) because they re-sell good .
But my favorite bike is a old Honda CX500 , cause it dont break, or make me spend foolish money to make it custom ,( if you put lipstick on a pig , it is still a pig) go figgure.
back in the fifties, the good bikes were " limey bikes"
BSA,Triump,Areial..
If you wanted to ride , then that's what you bought.
The HD's were oil leaking( on the showroom floor) ,heavy and only old guy's/ and police bought them . .
.
Now to the future!!!
HD has done a outstanding job of advertising, supported by dyed in the wool loyalest bikers..( I am one of them )
IT does have a mystic about it
Where else can you get 50 year old suspension design , vibrating engine that has to be rubber-mounted, and a unbalanced engine(fires both cylinders on the same crank revolution?
(think they added counterbalance"bandaid" on some) way too heavy to flick around corners, wobbles in curves, and has marginal brakes?
All This said , I do like to feel the vibes , and only have owned them since 1956
I cant explain it !!!!
#46
If you didn't, I bet you wish now you would've kept that first one around. Be real nice to have to bee bop to the local waterin' hole or coffee shop.
#47
this thread is wonderful..If only Black and Decker,IBM, and a few other manufactures had "kept the illusion of made in America"
Harley has done a great job of waving the Flag..
My 1991 sportie has a frame designed ,made in America..
However the evolution engine is designed in Japan
Has a Kehin carb (japanese)
the electrics are all Japanese, as is the suspension. (,I/E showa) Most of the parts are made in Mexico ,as are the mercury outboard(american outboard)
point is , nothing is totaly made in america anymore , so get over that crap.
I own two HD's (91 sportie,03 Fatboy) because they re-sell good .
But my favorite bike is a old Honda CX500 , cause it dont break, or make me spend foolish money to make it custom ,( if you put lipstick on a pig , it is still a pig) go figgure.
back in the fifties, the good bikes were " limey bikes"
BSA,Triump,Areial..
If you wanted to ride , then that's what you bought.
The HD's were oil leaking( on the showroom floor) ,heavy and only old guy's/ and police bought them . .
.
Now to the future!!!
HD has done a outstanding job of advertising, supported by dyed in the wool loyalest bikers..( I am one of them )
IT does have a mystic about it
Where else can you get 50 year old suspension design , vibrating engine that has to be rubber-mounted, and a unbalanced engine(fires both cylinders on the same crank revolution?
(think they added counterbalance"bandaid" on some) way too heavy to flick around corners, wobbles in curves, and has marginal brakes?
All This said , I do like to feel the vibes , and only have owned them since 1956
I cant explain it !!!!
Harley has done a great job of waving the Flag..
My 1991 sportie has a frame designed ,made in America..
However the evolution engine is designed in Japan
Has a Kehin carb (japanese)
the electrics are all Japanese, as is the suspension. (,I/E showa) Most of the parts are made in Mexico ,as are the mercury outboard(american outboard)
point is , nothing is totaly made in america anymore , so get over that crap.
I own two HD's (91 sportie,03 Fatboy) because they re-sell good .
But my favorite bike is a old Honda CX500 , cause it dont break, or make me spend foolish money to make it custom ,( if you put lipstick on a pig , it is still a pig) go figgure.
back in the fifties, the good bikes were " limey bikes"
BSA,Triump,Areial..
If you wanted to ride , then that's what you bought.
The HD's were oil leaking( on the showroom floor) ,heavy and only old guy's/ and police bought them . .
.
Now to the future!!!
HD has done a outstanding job of advertising, supported by dyed in the wool loyalest bikers..( I am one of them )
IT does have a mystic about it
Where else can you get 50 year old suspension design , vibrating engine that has to be rubber-mounted, and a unbalanced engine(fires both cylinders on the same crank revolution?
(think they added counterbalance"bandaid" on some) way too heavy to flick around corners, wobbles in curves, and has marginal brakes?
All This said , I do like to feel the vibes , and only have owned them since 1956
I cant explain it !!!!
As for too heavy, they are lighter or equal to most comparable models I read about. Never had a problem with wobble in the curves and as for marginal brakes .... well that's what skill, a wrench and after market parts are for and you should still be ahead of the game in comparison to what the other bike's depreciation will cost you in the long run.
#48
well said but I have to be honest here, I remember buying my first electric start Harley and all the kicker dudes booed me... Needless to say with age they soon swallowed their words. Especially the guys like me that have stroked motors and stuff... lol.
Btw... wasn't the Honda Goldwing the first successful shaft driven bike? Not trying to deny your post just confused if I am mixing up on my memory or not.
Btw... wasn't the Honda Goldwing the first successful shaft driven bike? Not trying to deny your post just confused if I am mixing up on my memory or not.
Same fuss when points ignition went to electronic. "I can't fix it on the side of the road!" fussed the old-timers. "I don't have to fix it at all, ever" said those who understood that "change for an obvious improvement only" is good.
As for Honda, yes, they used shaft-drives before Harley used belts, but Honda still has chains in its lineup, for some reason. They should take a hint from Suzuki, whose cruiser line is mostly shaft-drive, but they finally added a belt drive to their smallest models (the S40, I think they're called?) So now Suzuki has caught up to Harley in maintenance-free final drive on everything. I was all happy with Honda when I saw that they'd finally added shaft drive to their VFR Interceptor... but then they added a new 600cc-class replacement, the Varadero, that's chain-driven again! Now there's a company that's stuck in the past. Hel-lo Honda! Try to keep up, please!
#49
Yeah, those "kicker purists" sure shut up after a few times of not gettin' 'er turned over right away, and getting left behind.
Same fuss when points ignition went to electronic. "I can't fix it on the side of the road!" fussed the old-timers. "I don't have to fix it at all, ever" said those who understood that "change for an obvious improvement only" is good.
As for Honda, yes, they used shaft-drives before Harley used belts, but Honda still has chains in its lineup, for some reason. They should take a hint from Suzuki, whose cruiser line is mostly shaft-drive, but they finally added a belt drive to their smallest models (the S40, I think they're called?) So now Suzuki has caught up to Harley in maintenance-free final drive on everything. I was all happy with Honda when I saw that they'd finally added shaft drive to their VFR Interceptor... but then they added a new 600cc-class replacement, the Varadero, that's chain-driven again! Now there's a company that's stuck in the past. Hel-lo Honda! Try to keep up, please!
Same fuss when points ignition went to electronic. "I can't fix it on the side of the road!" fussed the old-timers. "I don't have to fix it at all, ever" said those who understood that "change for an obvious improvement only" is good.
As for Honda, yes, they used shaft-drives before Harley used belts, but Honda still has chains in its lineup, for some reason. They should take a hint from Suzuki, whose cruiser line is mostly shaft-drive, but they finally added a belt drive to their smallest models (the S40, I think they're called?) So now Suzuki has caught up to Harley in maintenance-free final drive on everything. I was all happy with Honda when I saw that they'd finally added shaft drive to their VFR Interceptor... but then they added a new 600cc-class replacement, the Varadero, that's chain-driven again! Now there's a company that's stuck in the past. Hel-lo Honda! Try to keep up, please!
#50
On another note my Gawd man does not anyone ride to back American made anymore, to show American pride? I just can't seem to comprehend this boasting of foreign machinery. Guess I was raised differently. I mean I have nothing against foreign bikes on the road but to hear boasting for foreign and nothing but complaints for domestic just has me dumbfounded.
I do not think some realize how much work and design is involved for an unbalanced air cooled bike to compete against an easier designed balanced water cooled bike. Come on give Harley some credit.
The V-twin itself when put into production in 1907 and re-introduced in 1911, is an example of H-D using innovation and actually competing in the market to beat the competition. The introduction of the Evolution engine in 1984 is another example of H-D innovating to compete in the market.
Also, before you lecture me about supporting American products, and pushing false patriotism, you should learn a little about the history of H-D. The company did one of the most un-American things possible in 1983 when they begged the government to impose tariffs on motorcycle imports with a displacement greater than 700cc. Rather than actually compete in the market on the merits of the bikes, H-D asked the government to hamstring the competition.
Again, I really like my H-D, but unlike you I refuse blindly support one brand and ignore the merits of other brands/models.