All I can answer with is what I was told. I still paid full price, but depending on the device he is tuning with and the components on the bike things can take much longer to get dialed in properly. There is only so much he could do with my PCIIIR. IF I ahd a TTS he told me he could easily spend 6 hours on it. So....it is what it is. Too bad this Dr. does not take my insurance plan.

Drew

 

your sure right on that one doc

 

There is a misunderstanding. The $800 includes the price of the TTS Mastertune which you only buy one time. So you would not spend that money each time you modify your bike. I quote 4 hours to calibrate the front and rear cylinders independently with a tuner designed for a speed-density EFI (TTS, SERT, Supertuner, Techno Research). In a case where the injector pulse width is not acceptably within the parameters of the fuel table, it will add to the tuning time (usually 1-2 hours). I can usually predict when this will occur, but not always. There are certain exhausts and cams that will create this situation and on large displacement engines. There are other issues that appear from time to time that can complicate the procedure, but 4 hours is typical.

Power Commanders cost less, and in some cases do not need or permit 4 hours of adjustment. Particularly in the case of Drew, his PCIII only offered opportunity to correct the front cylinder, so it took roughly half the time to develop the fuel table.

And the lowest cost alternative that is even worth considering is the Fuel Pak. You just need to verify that the calibration is for exactly your setup before you buy it. And realize that there may not be a calibration available from them that is fitting for any future modifications you may be interested in.

I can tune using any of the tools. The more capable the tool, the more time required to address the available settings. Here is how to do a short, quick, inexpensive tune - skip things, or get a device that delivers broad (and inaccurate) adjustments. But then it hardly deserves to be called tuning.

If I create a calibration for you, and you go and make a change, I am able to work off of the original calibration file that I created in the first place. This will potentially reduce the number of iterations required to get the mixture back under control and in the desired ratio at all operating points. That will substantially reduce the dyno time compared to creating a calibration starting with a canned map that is typically pretty far off.

Every bike is different. Simple mods require less adjustment. Less adjustment means less keystrokes and less time. Since the canned maps (included in the speed-density products) are for EPA friendly setups, they are rarely even close and require significant time to get right. That is the scenario I see the most, and on which I base my proposals.

The procedure is different for each of the different tuning devices. 4 hours is typical for the latest Power Commanders (Alpha-N based) as well as for the speed-density products.

If you call and ask me what I recommend, I will not tell you the cheapest way. I will quote you for the best way. And, unfortunately, the best way is not the least expensive.

If anyone decides they don't want to spend the money for the best way, let me know because I can do the less costly ways as right as they can be done too!

Geoffrey S. Gaites | President
Cycledoctor, Inc. | Motorcycle Performance Center
217 Avocado Street, Suite 4 | Costa Mesa, CA 92627
T 949 645 1235 | F 949 645 1217
ggaites@cycledoctor.com | www.cycledoctor.com

 

Geoff tuned my '07 (SE a/c, RTDs, TTS) after I had a $300 tune elsewhere (two "tunes", actually, as I took it back once). The other tuner had the bike on the dyno less than an hour, and it literally shot fireballs out the pipes if you decelerated quickly. I, too, talked at length with Geoff, then trailered the bike the 165 miles to get it there. Geoff spent right at four hours tuning - and the bike ran much, much better. Geoff takes the time to establish what you want the bike to do, then he maximizes performance to that objective.

I got my RGU in early August, and TTS Mastertune was unable to give me a definite release date for the 2011 software - so I went with a SERT, as this bike was running way too hot. The dealer only charged me $79 for an hour of dyno time to get it running OK. I'll have time to get to Geoff in November, so I'll get a real tune then.

Moral(s) of the story:
1) If you want a great riding street bike, going to a guy who lives, breathes, and eats drag racing might not be the best choice.
2) "Saving" $100 can cost you $300 - as well as a lot of agravation.
3) "Good enough" rarely is.
4) A HD deserves a great tune. Do it right and enjoy it forever. Do it cheap and suffer until you do it right later.

 

I agree with all the above. My bike runs so much better now since it was tuned by Geoff that I keep thinking it is a different bike. Whn I give it gas and it continues to pull and pull harder, I just smile and know I had the right guy tune it. mOney is jsut that, only money. You can't take it with you so enjoy while you are here. Who knows what might happen tomorrow.

Drew

 

I'll be looking up the Doctor. Now what's a good story I can tell my wife about why this needs to be done. Is it a "safety" issue?

 

Just tell her that if it does not get done the bike will run too hot and the engine is likely to die in a couple of thousand miles. Then you will need an entire rebuild or a new motor which is much more expensive than $300 or $400.

Drew

 

Ah, that's the ticket. Plus the money I'll save with better mileage.

 

Geoff, your right, seems as thought there was a misunderstanding when we spoke a few weeks back. I originally found out about you and your services through Westminster Harley Davidson. The guys in the parts department gave me your card and gave you a very high recommendation.

When I called, to be honest, I don’t remember the name of the guy I talked to, it might have been you or possibly someone else there? I was in no way under the impression that the $750-$800 included the tuner….no way because that then becomes quite reasonable. So there was definitely not a meeting of the minds on that conversation. I told you at the time (or whom it was that I talked to) that I would get all of my mods done and then make an appointment.

Let me make a point here, even at 800 bucks a shot, it’s been my contention all along to get it done anyway but to wait and make sure that I am done buying add ons for the engine, just from the economics perspective. After what I’ve spent in the last 6 weeks, between the showroom and the parts department, a $400 difference is not going to alter my decision to have it dyno tuned or not. But at half that price, it changes the way one thinks, if I do another mod in a year, spending another 350-400 bucks for another dyno tune isn’t so bad.

Regards,
Larry