I wish I had some Harley stock to complain about. I almost got in on it when it first opened. Opened at 17 and dropped to $7.00. Called my banker and got approved for $7000.00 to buy 1000 shares. My first wife lost it and that's my story[:@].

I am friends with several dealers and help out part time at one. I have been to bad dealers before. I just don't go back.

I posted a thread a month or two ago about sagging sales and pretty much got blasted. I too think that the day is coming when there will be too many bikes sitting on the floor. Dealers are going to have to start selling for MSRP or start eating their bikes. I can't remember the last time I saw this many bikes sitting on the floor with harleys still in crates in the back room. The new bikes will be out in a couple months. Harley has already stopped producing several 2005 models.

I have been riding long enough to remember when there were models on the floor from the previous 2 years. I can also remember just a couple years ago when there was a two year waiting list.


Terry

 

I have the same memories Terry. As far as "trashing" HD, the poster was right, this is America. If someone, giant corp or not, does something that we don't like, we can say something. It isn't neccessarily trashing them, just opinions.

HD has had their day, and I think their future is much bleaker than the past several years.

 

I'm new to the Harley "thing" and certainly would not propose that I know a lot regarding past sales practices by the MoCo. I paid a LOT for my bike even though it was sold to me at MSRP. After title/tax, stage I, etc., I was looking at almost $20K.

I don't think that the latest rape of the American public by the oil companies will result in an increase in HD sales. The bikes simply cost too much for that! Someone who buys a new HD isn't likely to really be looking to save money in reduced fuel costs. He might tell his wife that BS, but no one else believes it. If reduced fuel costs were what drove me to purchase another bike after thirty years, I would have bought something like a Triumph Tiger or one of the jap bikes.

One point that helped me make the decision to buy HD was the fact that HD bikes held their value so well. It was more like an "investment" - or so I told MY wife. I don't know so much anymore that they will hold. I seem to always have had the penchant of getting in on the tail end of a "good thing", only to sit and watch it sprial on down soon after I get involved. I hope that it wont be the case this time, but there still is a lot of unsold HDs sitting on the showroom floor of my dealer, and the classifieds are full of them every Sunday. My Brother-in-law has been trying to sell his EG Ultra for months and months at a really great (read "low") price without any takers.

 

Terry,
I think that you are correct in your views and recall that it wasn't even two years ago when I attempted to buy a new Deuce. Of course there was a little tag hanging from the bike with the MSRP along with some add on's (Silicone paint protectant, chrome mirrors, chrome clutch & brake levers that said Deuce, etc.). When I asked the salesman what his bottom dollar on the bike was he said 'Read the label' and I said 'Surely you would take at least a couple hundred under that' and he said no... A few weeks later I noticed the same bike still sitting there and my wife said to go ahead and get it, but I was too stubborn. Almost a month after I first saw the bike I went in again and this time hung around the parts area until I saw the GM strolling across the showroom floor so I made a bee line to the Deuce and started checking it out closely. He said ‘You looking for a bike?’ (Duh, no I was looking for my pet elephant…) I said ‘yes, and I will give you $$,$$$ for the bike’. He chuckled and said, ‘Nope, goes for at least sticker, never owned a Harley before, huh?’ I chuckled back and said ‘I have owned Harleys and other bikes, American, European and Japanese’. He said ‘You won’t be buying a new Harley at less than sticker any more, those days are long gone. You know those are Union folks that build these bikes and their wages aren’t the same as the jap bike workers’. So I thanked him, left and started looking for a good used Harley, which I found…. That Deuce finally sold, after several months sitting on the floor…

 

Which is exactly why they keep doing it. The price will fall when people start demanding it falls. Of course, that won't happen. Just like with gas. If we stop buying gas and making our voices heard, then we'll get lower gas prices. It'd take some sacrifice on our parts but I think it would be well worth it.

 

I can only speak for myself. I decided that the best route for me was to get the base big twin, but decided to splurge and go with the fuel injection. Do I think Harley is overpriced? YES!! Then why did I do it anyway? Because 20-30 years from now I want to be able to look at that cool old Harley I have. I won't be stock, but it's American, Union Made, and just coming home from work and looking at it makes me feel good. I feel like I bought a part of America. I helped out the workers that built it, and it's just plain neat to have. It would be really nice if the value stays up, but if not, it really won't matter. I sold my last baby, and I still miss her. Not gonna happen this time, I bought this bike and I look at her as mine for life. It will be kept in the family after I go as well.


P.S. Am I the only one who came home and spent a half hour polishing just 'cause i can?

joe

 

By the way guys, I bought my Dyna for MSRP at Dakota Harley Davidson in Minot North Dakota, So shop around, paying over MSRP is stupid! Yes, i paid MSRP, but i also got a 1,000 dollar credit to buy SE stuff, chrome whatever....offer was good only for dynas and v-rods.

Joe

 

If you really think that American oil companies have raped consumers due to high gasoline prices as of late, do a little research. Saudi Arabia recently offered and will up production but you will not see gasoline prices decline due to any increase in production right now. Now why is that? Answer....there simply is not enough refining capacity in the US right now and there are no refineries planned to be built. Why?? That is due to EPA regulation that virtually eliminates the building and operation of a refinery as well as the "not in my backyard" syndrome. Look at what happens everytime part of a refinery goes down due to a fire (as in Houston recently).....supply goes down and prices go up. Look at all the different blends of gasoline our silly local state and muncipalities require from the same refineries...translation, lower capacity from the same facility. Can't we all run the same blend in our tanks?

Our motor vehicles don't run on oil, they run on gasoline, and the law of supply and demand will and always has prevailed whether it be gasoline or sex. Check out how many refineries have been built in the last 10 years in the US. Check out how many more cars and good ole HD's are on the road compared to 10 years ago.

 

This is a great post that COULD be very educational to a lot of people....those that read what the Sarbanes-Oxley act really is. It makes it virtually impossible for any public company today to mismanage stockholders monies thanks to Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and other companies PREVIOUSLY led by criminals. If you don't believe it, read the Sarbanes-Oxley act.

This Act does NOT have anything to do with any company's market conditions or lack of competitiveness in the market...i.e. General Motors. The Sarbanes-Oxley act is also running up the cost of everything we buy that comes from a publicly owned company. Audit fees and reporting costs to the government and stockholders have obscenely skyrocketed and guess who is paying for this...you and me. Blame the Ernst and Youngs of the world. BTW, if you think they are on the up and up and not taking advantage of this auditing field day, read some more on what is really going on. If anyone thinks all big companies are bad, then don't buy from them. You won't own much!

 

I believe that there are five refinerys currently in operation within the U.S., mostly in the gulf area. One has experienced a number of dire safety violations over the past several years, including the fire that you pointed out.

Yes, you are indeed correct in your statements regarding the lack of refining capability in the U.S. That does not change the fact that big oil is raking in the dough! It will be interesting to note the profit margins once published. But, like you correctly pointed out - supply and demand. Honestly, I would rather pay higher prices than to not have a supply, or to have it rationed as was once done back in 1973.

Nonetheless, it pisses me off! It especially irks me to see local retailers rush out and increase the price at the pump almost immediately after a crude oil increase is announced when they certainly didn't pay increased prices themselves for the gasoline sitting in the storage tanks already refined and delivered. They are not near as quick to lower the price if a decrease in crude oil prices is announced!

Then there is the auto industry and the new hybred cars - guess what sort of price they ask for those?

It seems like a feeding frenzy by sharks and we - the consumer - are the food.