Buy the manual
#21
08-18-2010, 06:38 AM
While I won't tell someone to buy, or read the manual... I DO recommend having one.
I understand $65 dollars in a lot of money, for some... but if you USE it... you will get that $65 dollars back.
Heck... there ain't a lot of chrome stuff you can buy for $65 at a dealership, and even less, that will give you a return.
Now, let's think this through.....I have a question, on something mechanical.... I have 2 options.
1) open the service manual, and look it up. and have actual "correct" information in front of me
2) go in the house, walk upstairs, get online, and ask the question here. then wait for an answer... and then wed throught the RTFM, or BTFM replies, and the debates whether I should have used this or that., and why my bike is ugly, or has the slower color etc.
Seems to me... option 1 is faster.
To those who think the service manual is "too expensive" I can only repeat the words of the blue collar comedy tour's Bill Engvall..... "save up". It's worth more to me.... than any chrome, or t-shirt, or night at a bar.....
as always... YOUR miles may vary
I understand $65 dollars in a lot of money, for some... but if you USE it... you will get that $65 dollars back.
Heck... there ain't a lot of chrome stuff you can buy for $65 at a dealership, and even less, that will give you a return.
Now, let's think this through.....I have a question, on something mechanical.... I have 2 options.
1) open the service manual, and look it up. and have actual "correct" information in front of me
2) go in the house, walk upstairs, get online, and ask the question here. then wait for an answer... and then wed throught the RTFM, or BTFM replies, and the debates whether I should have used this or that., and why my bike is ugly, or has the slower color etc.
Seems to me... option 1 is faster.
To those who think the service manual is "too expensive" I can only repeat the words of the blue collar comedy tour's Bill Engvall..... "save up". It's worth more to me.... than any chrome, or t-shirt, or night at a bar.....
as always... YOUR miles may vary
#22
08-18-2010, 06:41 AM
Road Captain
Join Date: Jul 2010
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That is what forums are for. When I go to any of the other forums I am a member of (for my Mopar cages, guns and video game consoles), everyone is more than happy to offer their advise and is more than ready to drop some knowledge on you. Sure, there are pointless threads, jokes and arguments about the hundreds of different ways to do things, but nobody tries to swell up just because of a question. A lot of members here act like everyone should just be worshiping them for all of the knowledge they have but refuse to give you. Or they post about how they think some question is stupid and they wish they didn't even look at it... like it was impossible not to or something.
People like that should take a look at real helpful people like NSCoyote. That dude would offer you his advise if he was mid pump or on the can. His build thread is awesome and he seems to answer questions with pics when he can.
Yes, I own manuals. I am also a career mechanic and couldn't imagine telling one of my crew members off when they have a genuine question. Maybe I'm just not a "REAL" biker. If being a constant dick is a prerequisite, then I don't want to be one anyways.
I am NOT a mechanic type. Never hope to be. And I can most certainly afford the manual. It's UNDERSTANDING the manual that can sometimes throw me which is why I would post a question to this forum that may appear overly "simple" to someone who is mechanically experienced.
Getting berated is not what I would expect to see here. "BTFM" is a totally inappropriate response to anyone posting a technical question on this forum.
#24
08-18-2010, 08:03 AM
Road Warrior
I would add that the manual is not always correct. That is why there are service bulletins and technical updates all the time. One sometimes needs to have access to those updates before starting on some major wreching endeavors.
#25
08-18-2010, 08:06 AM
This can be a very useful tool on HDF. It just seems to me, sometimes, people want you to do their legwork for them. Most people, I think, probably use the BTFM approach because it seems people are asking tech questions in the wrong place, or are just to lazy to search the forums so see if their question has been asked before and the asker is too lazy to look it up.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/search.php?do=process
There is also a technical section to HDF, that is not in the general forum section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/gener...ech-forums-58/
They even have a "do-it-yourself" section, that isn't in the "general forum" section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/do-it...help-forum-41/
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/search.php?do=process
There is also a technical section to HDF, that is not in the general forum section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/gener...ech-forums-58/
They even have a "do-it-yourself" section, that isn't in the "general forum" section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/do-it...help-forum-41/
Last edited by JerryL....; 08-18-2010 at 08:17 AM.
#26
08-18-2010, 08:58 AM
I think a lot of it comes from the attitude of the guy asking the question too. It seems too ofter than people use the forum as a replacement of the manual because it's free. Kind of seems like they are taking advantage of it. I get this impression a lot less when they actually show they have tried to take a few minuets and look for the answer before posting a new thread. It's not the stupid question that annoys most members, it's the same stupid question every 2-3 days. I've done all 3 fluid changes, checked tension in my belt, and tons of other stuff without a manual, a few through stupid questions but mostly from searching. If there is something I can't find through searching I'll ask then. I've got a manual in the mail on it's way to me mainly because I'm tired of doing the searching for the torque specs and capacities.
There is a wealth of knowledge available on this board just by focusing on what has already been said. Sort of a give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish type of thing......
There is a wealth of knowledge available on this board just by focusing on what has already been said. Sort of a give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish type of thing......
#27
08-18-2010, 09:25 AM
Tourer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: atlanta ga.
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I have the manual. I think it is hard to follow, and user un-friendly. Absolutely no sense of humor either! The only thing it makes clear on every page is if you don't fix it right you are going to get hurt or die. Most of it I am never going to use, though it is interesting to see the inside of the transmission, etc, I guess. It is better as a reference tool once you already know how to do something.
I just replaced my throttle grip (first time adventure). A guy in the service dept explained how to re-adjust the throttle cables, it was easy. The manual does it a different way but before you even start you will have to find the "induction module"! Sounds a little scary right there.
It could use better pictures and more thorough instructions.
I just replaced my throttle grip (first time adventure). A guy in the service dept explained how to re-adjust the throttle cables, it was easy. The manual does it a different way but before you even start you will have to find the "induction module"! Sounds a little scary right there.
It could use better pictures and more thorough instructions.
#28
08-18-2010, 09:27 AM
A manual is one of the first things I buy w/ any vehicle I own and am not familiar with. One thing I've ALWAYS noticed is that the manual does not always have the tips and tricks listed that'll make the job go smoother and quicker. When I wrenched on helo's in the Navy, we had 19 manuals in my shop that covered "almost everything" that needed to be done to the helo. It did not however, cover the tips and tricks that experience gains you.
I think there are ALOT of questions that people like me, are asking to see if there's some tip or trick that the manual dodn't cover before I start the job. Then again, there are some questions that come up that are very basic to some folks, and others are overwhelmed.
Sometimes too much information can be counterproductive. lol
I think there are ALOT of questions that people like me, are asking to see if there's some tip or trick that the manual dodn't cover before I start the job. Then again, there are some questions that come up that are very basic to some folks, and others are overwhelmed.
Sometimes too much information can be counterproductive. lol
#29
08-18-2010, 09:52 AM
as someone who ask a question just recently and recieved the buy the manuel responce I applaud this thread.
I was a mech for 20 years and have a fair amount of mech knowledge but I didnt have a manuel for my son's 1200 sporty so I ask what I thought was a simple question . one would have thought I had shot the pres.
if I can help I will and yes a manuel is a great tool but not all have one or don't have one yet ..
I was a mech for 20 years and have a fair amount of mech knowledge but I didnt have a manuel for my son's 1200 sporty so I ask what I thought was a simple question . one would have thought I had shot the pres.
if I can help I will and yes a manuel is a great tool but not all have one or don't have one yet ..
#30
08-18-2010, 12:27 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
You just hit the key point that the forum is good for. Tricks to the repairs. Everytime I am about to wade off into something I don't do often I look at my manuals then ask a few friends and get an idea of what my game plan should be. My specific question usually to my independent mechanic is what is going to surprise me on this job and what do I need to expect? If I get lost there are pictures in my manual and exploded views that help me get back on track. Too many times people are lazy or cheap and don't get the manuals. Never too much good information but there is always plenty of useless help.
A manual is one of the first things I buy w/ any vehicle I own and am not familiar with. One thing I've ALWAYS noticed is that the manual does not always have the tips and tricks listed that'll make the job go smoother and quicker. When I wrenched on helo's in the Navy, we had 19 manuals in my shop that covered "almost everything" that needed to be done to the helo. It did not however, cover the tips and tricks that experience gains you.
I think there are ALOT of questions that people like me, are asking to see if there's some tip or trick that the manual dodn't cover before I start the job. Then again, there are some questions that come up that are very basic to some folks, and others are overwhelmed.
Sometimes too much information can be counterproductive. lol
I think there are ALOT of questions that people like me, are asking to see if there's some tip or trick that the manual dodn't cover before I start the job. Then again, there are some questions that come up that are very basic to some folks, and others are overwhelmed.
Sometimes too much information can be counterproductive. lol