Originally Posted by monstead

That green/black CVO SG has me salivating. (and prolly makes a few of you puke! )

Originally Posted by hoosierhog88

I own and operate a Harley Davidson motorcycle for the very reasons H-D has had for so long. I like the way it sounds. I like the way it rides. I like the way it feels when it idles and I like the way it feels when it is up to highway speed. I like the way I feel when I dismount after a nice ride and I like the way I feel when I just look at it.

If I want 21st century innovations, I'd buy a Victory or other plastic bike. I don't want water-cooled mambie/pambie motorcycles. I want one that has the look, feel and features that make it what it is... a Harley Davidson.

Seriously folks, if you have so much to bitch about with the new ones, then don't buy one. If you don't like what you currently own, then sell it and get one that you like. It really isn't that tough.

Given a vote, I think the majority of Harley Davidson owners prefer to leave things alone and let the Japanese companies build and sell the next "ah-ha".

Originally Posted by lencap

To be fair, I think given the circumstances they did as much as they could. Over the last three years sales have fallen from 350K bikes to just over 200K, they closed Buell and had to eat nearly $80 million in closing costs. They tried to buy a high end growth brand - MV Agusta - and didn't know how to market it or integrate it into their fold. That cost $200 million plus. They lost $500 million on their finance arm - HDFS - and borrowed $2 billion from Warren Buffet at a 10% interest rate to keep their finances tolerable.

Despite all of that, they added an ABS option to their touring bikes in 2008, expanded that to the Softail line for 2011; redesigned the frames on their touring models in 2009 providing better cooling and ground clearance along with greater carrying capacity and a larger fuel tank, designed and built a real Harley trike, not a conversion from a third party in 2009, and did dozens of small upgrades to all the models that individually don't seem like much, but collectively are quite a bit of added value.

Look at the difference from 2006 to today. In five years, all of the above happened, including the worst economy since the depression, and despite that Harley has updated all of their models, introduced the 96 engine and six speed transmission, and upgraded all engines to fuel injection.

I could go on and on, but what other business do you know of that has lost almost half of its sales by unit volume in five years has managed to come close to what the Motor Company has managed to do? None of their managers has been sued for stealing, lying, taking company funds or anything else. Yes, they have cut some workers out, but they are selling 150,000 fewer bikes - something has to give.

Next up is the 2012 California emissions standards - that would doom any other air cooled company on the planet. Somehow Harley will survive - maybe by designing an oil cooled cylinder (like BMW has done on the R series), or by introducing a V-Rod powered alternative to the touring bikes. I don't know what they'll do, but given their history, I'm very confident that they will figure it out and survive.

And if the economy does revive, they will be the first to benefit. There are almost 300,000 fewer Harley motorcycles on the road for 2008-2010 model years than there were in prior years. Less inventory hangover to depress prices, and lots of room to expand production if demand returns.

Frankly I think they've done a great job - and we have all benefited from it. Compare the cost of a 2011 bike to a 2006 model - consider the upgrades that have been added in the last five years and the cost of today's bike is cheaper than the 2006 equivalent. Then consider the still better than anything else on the planet resale value, and Harley wins again.

I've owned lots of bikes from lots of different manufacturers - no one has done better than they have; they are The Motor Company for a reason. They are the best.

Rant over.