I've been following this post, with great interest, since it's inception. I've not seen anybody post what type of ammo they use for personal protection. I realize that there are numerous types of ammo available and I'm just curious what you use and the reasoning behind it. I'm sure some are considerably better than others, and I'm also sure opinions may vary. Are there any websites out there that have data to back up their claims. I had some Glaser Pow'RBall in my Ruger LCP .380, but have it loaded whith some (CCI?) Stinger rounds, right now. All comments and opinions are welcome.
Thanks, Mark

 

Mark...

It doesn't seem like this forum is a great place to discuss ammunition, ballistics, gun choices, etc. But, briefly, today's top choices in defense ammo include:

Federal HST
Speer Gold Dot
Winchester Ranger

Older designs which have been eclipsed by the most recent designs (above)

HydraShok

THis is a good source of info:

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP (23966)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)


This list from Doc at Tactical Forums includes ammunition tested and recommended:

.40 S&W RECOMMENDED LOADS
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP (53961)
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP (53966)
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

From DockGKR at TacticalForums.com:

In our testing, the following currently produced 9 mm JHP’s offered acceptable terminal performance:

Triton 115 gr +P JHP (TR9HVA)
Fed 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Win 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Win 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Fed 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Rem Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer 147 gr JHP (53619)
Win 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

FWIW, the 147 gr Winchester RA9T remains the best performing 9mm load we have tested. If I was carrying a 9 mm handgun, I personally would choose the 147 gr Winchester Ranger Talon or 127 gr +P+ Winchester Ranger Talon followed by the 147 gr Remington Golden Saber, the 124 gr +P Speer Gold Dot and the 124 gr Federal Tactical.

========

I can't offer anything on the lesser calibers (.380, etc.). Personally, I consider 9mm the smallest defense caliber I would choose. The Kahr PM9 is about the size of a .380 pistol and yet is chambered in 9mm and considered one of the best choices in s-m-a-l-l defense guns. I rarely carry my PM9 as I find the G23 (.40 cal) very easy to carry and conceal and it's utility and capacity is considerably better. The Glock 19 (9mm) is a great choice as well. Exact same size as the G23, but slightly lesser caliber & greater capacity. For those who simply MUST have something smaller, the G26 fills the bill, though I find I can carry and conceal my G23, G19 about as easily as my G26.

In my experience, it seems like a lot of people are choosing the smallest possible guns for concealed carry. I think this is unwise. Many of these folks could easily carry and conceal somewhat larger guns which would offer considerably better shootability, faster return to follow-up shots, greater capacity, more accuracy, better reliability, and more effective caliber. Carrying IWB, I think pretty much anyone can easily carry and conceal a G26, if not a G19/G23. All you need is a slightly loose fitting outer garment (sweatshirt, sweater, shirt tail worn out, jacket, even a loose fitting t-shirt), a decent IWB holster (HighNoon offers great holsters at low prices), and a beefy belt. Fashion belts are totally out for carrying a holstered gun. Of course for riding, other choices are possible. I carry my G23 in my motorcycle left front pocket while riding. All other times I carry the G23 IWB at 4 o'clock in a HighNoon holster. Disappears under any loose fitting, tails out t-shirt, sweatshirt, sweater, jacket, etc.

Sorry... this turned out to be NOT so brief. (I have a lot of experience in the firearms world.)

 

In my 4" 44 mag. I chamber the Garrett Hammerhead 330 gr. hardcast. Why,....penetration!

 

carry both 9mm and 38 Spl. both weapons are loaded with Dept issued ammo for liability reasons. NY State law allows for more leeway for law enforcement, but our dept puts a stricter rule in place... i must carry the same ammo all the time. they are always coming up with reasons to change, but other than going from ball to HP, the changes have been minimal. we are always the last to change over here in NY. we switched from 38 to 9mm at about the same time a lot of other depts were switching to 40 cal. i am pretty proficient, and practiced in both of my carry weapons, and feel i would be well served by both in a time of necessity.

 

I wouldn't carry a 380 on a bet. If you have to carry a 9 MM get Corbon 115 +P.

"I carry a .45 because they don't make a .46."

 

I have had my CCW here in CA for about 10 years.. must re-apply every two years - back ground, training and $$ each time. I also have a CCW for UT / FL and NV. I carry 99% of the time I ride - I have been back and forth West to East many times - Each time I copy off the web, what states I can carry. Some state Require to tell a LEO that you are armed, most only if asked. I have been stopped three times in the past ten years for speed and never asked - I stayed in the car - therefore I kept quiet... Had I been asked to step out or get off the bike - I would tell the officer that I had my CCW and that I was armed... I ALWAYS treat the officers with respect and I don't want them surprised if I move and they see a print - these guys Know what to look for.

Most states are going to "right to carry" and most reconize other CCW but NOT ALL - if you carry be sure you know the local laws..

as far as one poster here saying he swept his shirt back to scare the bad guy - not sure if that is a good idea ??? Now the element of surprise is Gone - if you need it, pull it and be ready to use it.. I have never felt that need but I believe it is MY right to make that decession - not the Gov...

For those of you that think it is better to be judged by 12 and think you can defend your self... How many of you saw the story a while back on Harold (Hal) Fish. He live in AZ - was out hiking and came apon a guy camping with his two dogs... dogs attacked Hal - he fired at the dogs - missed - dogs ran off - dog owner attacked Hal (ran at him yelling "Iam going to Kill you" Hal feared for his life - fired two shots... Long trial - found guilty..

I just googled this and found that he got an apeal... I have not read it all, but here it is

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...sed_07_21_2009


I saw this story a few years ago and was shocked... This guy is about the most law abiding guy you could find... I did have a little trouble with two details but that is minor.. Keep this in mind IF you carry..

I still prefer to carry and hope I never need it..

 

230 gr Hydra-shocks in both my .45s and 124 gr Hydra-shocks in my wife's 9mm. There are some better JHPs out there, but I don't believe there are varying levels of dead.

Realisticly it depends on where the engagement occurs. Out and about a good JHP is a wise choice. For home defense, a frangible load is probably the safest to avoid over-penetration......

 

DHart,
Thank you so much for the info, I greatly appreciate it. I've got a Stainless S&W Model 645 that I carried for a while....too big and bulky for my tastes. I've been out of the gun scene for quite a while and when I started looking for something lightweight to carry, it seemed as if everybody was recommending the Ruger LCP. My Dad had purchased one and he is usually very thourough when searching for the best product, whether it be pistols, TV's, stereo's, etc. So, with that being said, I purchased one, also. My Son has a M&P 9mm that he carries and is considering purchasing a LCP like my Dad and I. Does it not have enough knock down power, is that why you recommend against it?? Would it be considered an acceptable firearm if some of the 'hotter' loads were used?? Or are the loads listed above already 'hot' loads?? Sorry for all of the questions, but I want to learn and you seem to be very knowledgable. Thanks to all the others for their responses as well.

 

Gearhead... any gun is better than no gun if you need a gun! That said, no handgun has any "knockdown" power. Handgun cartridges are notoriously poor stoppers when you need to STOP an assailant RIGHT NOW. For any handgun cartridge to do that requires a CNS interference (brain, spinal column, etc.) and such shots are not easy to do, certainly not something you can expect to do reliably under all circumstances.

Even a direct hit to the heart can't be counted on to STOP anyone RIGHT NOW. Many fatally wounded assailants lived long enough after being wounded to go on and inflict serious injury or death on their victim before they themselves gave up the attack. Many "bad guys" have absorbed numerous hits from 9mm, .40, and .45 without being slowed down much, if at all, for minutes or longer, before they finally lost enough blood to give up the fight.

So ideally, if your life is indeed immediately threatened, you will employ numerous well placed rounds of a fairly potent caliber and you should continue to try to place rounds where they should go until the threat is STOPPED. Anything short of that is very dangerous. I would not want to face a (potentially) heavy-weight, "built", hopped up/stoned/inebriated/determined/hardened assailant with a tiny .380. NO WAY. I don't care how "cool" the gun is or how "popular" they are. They are a last ditch, marginal-at-best option for self defense.

I think both caliber potency AND high(er) capacity are likely to be very important elements in the defense against a determined attacker or attackers (often assailants act in pairs or trios)... that's why I picked a relatively potent, relatively high capacity, relatively compact pistol as my carry gun... G23 with 14 rounds of .40 cal 180 gr. HST ammo and a spare mag carrying 15 rounds if a reload is necessary/possible. Less might do the job, but you have no idea what form or circumstances the threat might take... so if you're going to prepare for defense, don't cut yourself short unless you absolutely must.

Chances are that a law abiding citizen is not likely to need to pull a gun in defense, but if you ever had to, you would pray and thank your lucky stars to be well prepared. And as for using a gun as a threat... no way that's a good idea. Never pull a weapon unless you are prepared to and need to actually shoot because once a gun is produced, the situation changes drastically from that point forward!

So my advice to you, Gearhead, is to consider upping your sidearm to something with better potency and higher capacity... then shoot the heck out of it so you are good with it! I consider 9mm the bare minimum, with 40 being a bit better, and .45 just a bit better than that. .45 is a wonderful caliber to shoot and to reload, but capacity suffers and cost is highest to shoot. And between these three calibers, the terminal ballistic differences are marginal enough that you could reasonably say that they are fairly close to relatively equal. So from a defense standpoint, that makes shot placement and capacity the biggest factors in terminal effectiveness.

That's why of all the guns I have to choose from, I've settled on the G23 in .40 caliber... perfect combination of concealability, potency, capacity, accuracy, reliability, and common-ness of use/parts availability, and customization options. I have numerous nice guns, but choose Glocks for most of my defense purposes because they are great tools. Very reliable, rugged and durable, reasonably priced, common, easily customized, widespread availability of parts, accessories, and knowledgeable pistolsmiths. There are other excellent guns, of course, but in my mind, the G23 is the sweet spot in meeting all of those parameters in one highly dependable firearm.

 

I don't carry anything, but ride with my brother (Texas) and he's always carrying as well as many of my friends. Some have told me not to get a permit since I can always carry a hand gun in my tour pak w/o needing permit and not subject to strict rules like getting a dwi or other infraction so I've held off on getting my permit. Don't know if that's right or wrong?