How do you make bikes more affordable without cutting quality ? Oh right, you go for lower per-unit profit. Or cut on service. Or marketing.

Hey wait, all those options will result in less sales even though the bikes are cheaper...

So I guess plastic it is. Who really needs metal fenders anyway ?

 

Exactly. That is EXACTLY what I was advocating. I salute your willingness to engage in nuanced and positive conversation.

 

With extremely few exceptions, the majority of motorcycles are "toys." I have owned a motorcycle for most of my 40+ years of life, and all were a way for me to escape and "play", no less a hobby than the hunting or shooting I do, or boating, or camping, or the computer sitting on my lap right now. Part of the American way of life.

H-D fills a niche in the market just as much as Yamaha does, or Kawasaki, or Honda, or BMW, or Orange County Choppers. Just name the company/manufacturer/builder.

I have owned numerous metrics, and only recently bought my first H-D. They all had their strengths and weaknesses.

I paid more for my H-D than anything else that I have ever had, but it will also retain more of the value of the machine over any of the metrics I ever had. Yes, today you can buy the Yamaha cheaper than the H-D.....but 5 years from now, it will be valued significantly less than the comparable H-D.

We can all disagree, that too is another part of the American way of life, but that is also part of what makes us so great as Americans.

Enjoy the ride, put wind in your face, and smile.

 

Harley Davidson is an American Icon. No questions, or argument at any level of enthusiast. People always argue the price of a Harley versus the price of a "competitive" metric or Asian made motorcycle. When someone owning a "competitive" metric motorcycle states "I paid less than you, and have the same thing." This is actually a comfort statement to allow they themselves to easy their frustrations. Before anyone brings the hate to me. Listen. If you really only wanted to ride, and it did not matter what it was. Then why not say, "Hey, I wanted it and I love it. It is everything I dreamed of."

Now back to the OP topic. Harley posted their current earnings and losses for shareholders. Not for everyone to start screaming the sky is falling, Harley is going under. They are ending the Buell line....blah, blah, blah.

Face it Buell ran it's course against Foreign racing bikes. It lost. Why? I really could not answer that. How many riders do any of you see riding Buells? I am sure in crotch-rocket riding worlds those riders are just as passionate about certain brands as we Harley Riders are. But, again, how many people with Buells are riding in your small group? I look at Buell and see something that is alone and unfitting to any social motorcycle circle.

Yes, Buell was based on racing knowledge. Just like the Foreign competitor. But most American Racers are riding and winning on a Foreign bike.

Harley is not going anywhere. The market is stable, right now. It has not really dropped or sharply risen. Buyers are holding until they see security. With this current Administration attempting to ram Government Health Care upon us, buyers are waiting. Those buyers are the ones that will be hit the hardest at tax time.

 

How about you offer arguments instead of vague statements then ? How does Harley lower price without sacrificing quality ? Maybe you'd want to offer insight into what you're thinking so that we can have nuanced and positive conversations instead of just throwing something out there and expecting others to come up with positive and interesting ways to promote your statement.

 

There is no denying the nostalgia, mystique and lifestyle of owning a harley davidson. I just saying that until harley can come up with W.O.W bike that has got some of the features that is being displayed in the aftermarket culture that has been going on with the younger generation the sales are going to continue to slide downward. Unless all you rich sumbitches who buy new bikes every year plan on supporting the company in full for now on, and i don't think there are as many on you people as there used to be. Now are there?

So to all the younger guys and girls. buy used and put you soul into it. God knows the factory has lost their soul.

long live a 56 Pan.

 

What are the Iron 883 and Nightster then ? They seem to be affordable bikes aimed at a younger crowd.

Look at the ad for the Iron 883 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STmsBT7Lerw

The fact is, Harley sells you a no compromise bike. They use chromed metal all over instead of plastic, steel fenders instead of fiber glass, powdercoat instead of paint, etc... And seriously, a 110 ci or a 96 ci, what does it change ? It's a bike, not a 3000 lbs car.

Like everyone else said, all motorcycle sales are down, Harley less than others. What makes you think their downward trend as anything to do with the bikes themselves ?

 

Harley sales are down about 21%
Victory sales are down 56%
Other cruiser sales are down about 36%
Sportbike sales are down 51%

 

Making a Harley "more affordable" means devaluing the product. Devaluing the product would hurt resale values. Hurting resale values might lead to lower initial sales. With dropping sales, the company might presume their lower prices are still not "more affordable", so they lower prices further, devaluing the product further, leading to lower sales.

As dumb as it may be at times, the price point you set for a product goes a long way towards creating a perception of quality & value. Whether that perception is based on reality or not is irrelevant to sales.

Had you chosen an Impala instead of a Camaro, you might almost have a somewhat valid point. There are a lot of reasons why people buy the cars they buy, almost none of them having to do with practicality or logical factors.

His comparison was between a cheaply made Harley copy vs. a Harley. Someone who wants a Harley doesn't want a plastic copy.

They perform very well against their competition.


Without going into it again - a company has to be careful to balance gaining sales with devaluing their product.

Did you miss the AMF years? AMF/Harley made dirt bikes and other products to compete with the metric companies. The problem is, Yamaha & Honda are not Harley competitors. They are two different markets. The only metric buyers who are a potential market for Harley are people who start on a smaller, lighter metric cruiser then *move up* to a Harley.

Harley would not do well to lower the perception of their products to the point where buying a Harley is not seen as a step up.

I have heard many metric cruiser riders offer "excuses" as to why they don't have a Harley. ... and I don't ask. It seems an automatic response for many metric cruiser riders.

I have never heard a Harley rider make excuses as to why he doesn't own a metric.


It's also accurate in many areas. A metric is probably lighter, less expensive, vibrates less, handles better in the corners, accelerates faster... depending on the criteria on which you are measuring, it would be rather easy for a reviewer to pick a metric cruiser over a Harley.

Have you ever driven a Lamborghini Countach? They are terrible cars to drive, for many reasons. Number one would be visibility. You can't see much out of a Countach. In spite of the size of the windshield (seemingly very large), due to the angle of it, you get a small slice of vision in front of you. The windows in the doors don't open, so there is an added small window which slides back a bit. This puts a couple of lines through the side windows, obscuring vision to either side. The back window may as well not exist at all. Aside from the fact that it's very small to begin with, between air intakes, scoops and wings, you can't see anything out the back. The only way to back the car up involves opening the drivers side door and assuming an odd seating position which allows you to work the gas, brake and steering, while turning your upper body & head backwards.

As a mid engine car, you'd have to pull the engine to replace the belts. A tune up would cost, easily, over $1,000.

In spite of those and other problems or shortcomings, Lamborghini got top dollar for the Countach when they were in production. The Countach has not been in production for many years, but still commands significant prices on the secondary market.

If you were to compare a Countach to a Corvette, the Corvette would be much less expensive, much more drivable, and reviewers might easily choose the Corvette over the Countach based on a number of criteria.

Did Lamborghini respond by building and selling a car more like a Corvette and lower their prices to compete with the Corvette? Obviously not. Why? Because they are not competing with the Corvette. To do so would devalue their product.

They can, but they shouldn't.

Not sure how much energy you need to think and type. I just woke up not too long ago and am only on my second cup of coffee. ...but, it's OK. You're under no obligation to respond.

That's a tough one. I'm a smart-*** and just a bit narcissistic. It's just how I roll man.

 

Yeah your right. but when was the last time you walked into a dealership and said "that is a must have bike" with the enthusiasm of something that would just stand out in a crowd. The sportsters are great "LITTLE" bikes even though the nightster is pretty damn quick. But what about the dyna and softail line. Every time they bring out a new bike, all it is are left over parts from other bikes. Case in point the rocker. Tank is a left over duece and the first thing everyone (meaning most) wants to change is the rear seat and fender. Hell heartland biker is having a hard time keeping up with the demand of the kit they offer that changes the back end of the rocker. See nothing new. Crossbones. Left over springer softail parts. Not a damn thing new. A lot of people made that bike long before Harley put it out as a production bike. Dyna bikes = streetbob and wide glide share the same rear fender which is copied from the nightster. Seems like Harley can't even be original anymore with their own stuff. I just want someone up in Wisconsin to put some more soul into their thought process and get back to the way things used to be. Creativity. That my friends is something that Harley has forgotten about.