Ethanol & EPA, Sticking It to Us again..
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#42
10-29-2009, 05:46 PM
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I'm ok with people who favor to use it, but what about people who DON"T favor it? Where do we buy the non-ethonol gas? Where is our "freedom of choice"? Ever leave E-gas in your boat's tank longer than 90 days (over winter)? It turns into jelly!
Leave it set in your Harley's tank over the winter, and then next Spring tell the mechanic that you were going to "clean out the system" anyway....
Leave it set in your Harley's tank over the winter, and then next Spring tell the mechanic that you were going to "clean out the system" anyway....
#43
10-29-2009, 05:59 PM
Road Captain
A little booze for the ironhorse.
First, IMNSHO; Pipelines can carry ethanol, with drying agents added at the end points water absorption issues are solvable. And Gasoline does absorb water, not nearly to the extent as ethanol, but it does.
And no I disagree that ethanol is any more corrosive than gasoline. My goodness, gasoline's original purpose was as a solvent. That is why there are special approved containers for gas cans and not using one is a misdemeanor offense most places.
The use of ethanol is not to provide better fuel economy - it's to lower emissions as measured by the EPA for what the EPA, today, thinks is important.
Also, corn is a very poor biomass for the production of ethanol. Here is a year old article that shows much cheaper uses with non-food crops, such as Bermudagrass, switchgrass, Napiergrass—and even yard waste.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0728192938.htm
But these advances do require retooling of the refineries and a more production oriented farming to grow the appropriate biomass.
Even with this, without the pipelines ethanol based fuels will be much more expensive than they ought to be.
...gene
And no I disagree that ethanol is any more corrosive than gasoline. My goodness, gasoline's original purpose was as a solvent. That is why there are special approved containers for gas cans and not using one is a misdemeanor offense most places.
The use of ethanol is not to provide better fuel economy - it's to lower emissions as measured by the EPA for what the EPA, today, thinks is important.
Also, corn is a very poor biomass for the production of ethanol. Here is a year old article that shows much cheaper uses with non-food crops, such as Bermudagrass, switchgrass, Napiergrass—and even yard waste.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0728192938.htm
But these advances do require retooling of the refineries and a more production oriented farming to grow the appropriate biomass.
Even with this, without the pipelines ethanol based fuels will be much more expensive than they ought to be.
...gene
#44
10-29-2009, 06:02 PM
Road Captain
You're on to something buddy. I track my milage on my truck. Its an f-150 with a V-6. I used to get 15-17 mpg witch sucks, but its also loaded with tools. And with the new ! Better! 10% Ethonal blend gas I only get about 13-14 mpg. You're righ,t the government feeds us this **** about what goods for us. While the whole time they preach be healthy, and they feed us corn which is subsistiesed and wonder why we keep gaining weight. Being of German decsent I have to say, all my friends and family in Deutschland give me a hard time all the time about how Corn is pig feed. Its amazing if you do the research on how much stuff we use has corn, corn syrup, or more corn syrup in it. Maybe we should find a way to refine cabbage or some other kind of starch and make our own gas.
Mmmm... kraut fur jedermann! Ich liebe es. Mein favorit!
Mmmm... kraut fur jedermann! Ich liebe es. Mein favorit!
#45
10-29-2009, 06:49 PM
One of the major chains around western Wisconsin is Kwik Trip. Within the past few weeks they have been changing the the 91 octane to ethanol free. The pump handles are now red. Sticker states ethanol free for recreational vehicles.
Maybe it's a change coming from other outlets for 91 or better octane?
Maybe it's a change coming from other outlets for 91 or better octane?
#46
10-29-2009, 07:38 PM
Supposed to save enviorment & use less foreign oil. Gas Stations here Switched to 10% couple weeks ago..
All summer (7k) checked mileage, average-42+.
Since the 10% Ethanol was added, rode 850 miles and have averaged 36.
Thats riding the same
Thats a drop of 14%.
Trying to figure if it would really save any gasoline usage (foreign oil). fine if it works
Done some math to see.
To make it simple, at 42mpg. lets say I rode 8400 miles..I would use 200 gals.
Then at 36 mpg I rode the same 8400 miles. fuel usage would be 233.3 gals..
So I would use 33.3 mor gals of fuel with the 10% Ethanol.
Take 233gal X .90% of reg gas still in the new mix. that = 209gals. So because of the 14% drop of mileage, we will actually use 9 gals more gas than if they left it alone, (no Ethanol) and on top of that add another 33 gals of Ethanol.. so much for lowering our oil dependency.
Just read a EPS report that said fuel cost will come down $.12 1/2 cents a gal, ooops some one forgot to tell our station. Also the test haven't proved it helps the Environment, they are all over the chart. Some say yes, some no..
Even if we end up with it they still don't know what if any effects it will have long term on Gas engines, and they are now talking about going to a 15% mix.
Ok off my horse..
All summer (7k) checked mileage, average-42+.
Since the 10% Ethanol was added, rode 850 miles and have averaged 36.
Thats riding the same
Thats a drop of 14%.
Trying to figure if it would really save any gasoline usage (foreign oil). fine if it works
Done some math to see.
To make it simple, at 42mpg. lets say I rode 8400 miles..I would use 200 gals.
Then at 36 mpg I rode the same 8400 miles. fuel usage would be 233.3 gals..
So I would use 33.3 mor gals of fuel with the 10% Ethanol.
Take 233gal X .90% of reg gas still in the new mix. that = 209gals. So because of the 14% drop of mileage, we will actually use 9 gals more gas than if they left it alone, (no Ethanol) and on top of that add another 33 gals of Ethanol.. so much for lowering our oil dependency.
Just read a EPS report that said fuel cost will come down $.12 1/2 cents a gal, ooops some one forgot to tell our station. Also the test haven't proved it helps the Environment, they are all over the chart. Some say yes, some no..
Even if we end up with it they still don't know what if any effects it will have long term on Gas engines, and they are now talking about going to a 15% mix.
Ok off my horse..
"In an effort to reduce emissions, the EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, mandates that the formulation of gasoline during winter months be changed because of colder operating temperatures. Starting in late spring, refiners go back to what is called the "summer formula.'' Many drivers, especially hybrid owners, report decreases in fuel mileage similar to yours while using winter formula gas. Using gasoline with a higher ethanol mixture will also cause a decrease in mileage.
But once the pumps start delivering summer formula gasoline, your mileage should bounce back. Check with your usual gas station to find out if they've starting getting the summer mixture."
#47
10-29-2009, 09:49 PM
First, IMNSHO; Pipelines can carry ethanol, with drying agents added at the end points water absorption issues are solvable. And Gasoline does absorb water, not nearly to the extent as ethanol, but it does.
And no I disagree that ethanol is any more corrosive than gasoline. My goodness, gasoline's original purpose was as a solvent. That is why there are special approved containers for gas cans and not using one is a misdemeanor offense most places.
The use of ethanol is not to provide better fuel economy - it's to lower emissions as measured by the EPA for what the EPA, today, thinks is important.
Also, corn is a very poor biomass for the production of ethanol. Here is a year old article that shows much cheaper uses with non-food crops, such as Bermudagrass, switchgrass, Napiergrass—and even yard waste.
..gene
And no I disagree that ethanol is any more corrosive than gasoline. My goodness, gasoline's original purpose was as a solvent. That is why there are special approved containers for gas cans and not using one is a misdemeanor offense most places.
The use of ethanol is not to provide better fuel economy - it's to lower emissions as measured by the EPA for what the EPA, today, thinks is important.
Also, corn is a very poor biomass for the production of ethanol. Here is a year old article that shows much cheaper uses with non-food crops, such as Bermudagrass, switchgrass, Napiergrass—and even yard waste.
..gene
But ethanol is used to remove water from gas, because ethanol absorbs water. But if you don't have water in your gas, you soon will, if you use ethanol.
Just because you "disagree" doesn't change the fact that ethanol is FAR more corrosive than gasoline. You've got a computer, you can look it up.
As the study by Stanford University shows, ethanol does not lower emissions, and that's not even considering the lower fuel mileage.
If it was possible to grow weeds to make ethanol instead of corn, believe me, everyone would be doing it. Trust me on this. Weeds are free and easy to grow. Corn takes a lot of work and money.
#48
10-29-2009, 11:56 PM
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It's "cheaper" cuz our tax dollars are what subsidize it in the first place.
Talk about taking it in both ends... Ethanol is a political scam to appease mid-western farmers and Gore's Greenies.
#50
10-30-2009, 12:09 AM
What you and everyone else is forgetting, there is a winter mix gas( dyno or ethanol )
"In an effort to reduce emissions, the EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, mandates that the formulation of gasoline during winter months be changed because of colder operating temperatures. Starting in late spring, refiners go back to what is called the "summer formula.'' Many drivers, especially hybrid owners, report decreases in fuel mileage similar to yours while using winter formula gas. Using gasoline with a higher ethanol mixture will also cause a decrease in mileage.
But once the pumps start delivering summer formula gasoline, your mileage should bounce back. Check with your usual gas station to find out if they've starting getting the summer mixture."
"In an effort to reduce emissions, the EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, mandates that the formulation of gasoline during winter months be changed because of colder operating temperatures. Starting in late spring, refiners go back to what is called the "summer formula.'' Many drivers, especially hybrid owners, report decreases in fuel mileage similar to yours while using winter formula gas. Using gasoline with a higher ethanol mixture will also cause a decrease in mileage.
But once the pumps start delivering summer formula gasoline, your mileage should bounce back. Check with your usual gas station to find out if they've starting getting the summer mixture."
We haven't got to winter fuel yet and maybe now that its oct....
the gas price went up .25/gal because of the summer additives and now its even up more and it supposed to be the winter mix....
3.09 per gal for premium.....
I've use stations that still have gas without the 10% ethanol and my mileage goes back up to 42.........