Similar I believe to the riders who fail to negotiate a curve due to target panic.

Is "target Panic" like taking your eyes off your line?

 

When you are up to your azz in gators, it is hard to remember your original goal, was to drain the swamp.

In other words, the VERY LARGE, VAST majority of peeps, are in way over their heads, in such a 'panic' siuation.

NO DOUBT, it can be done, but GREAT DOUBT, most know how, or have the experience, to pull it off, peshally in freeway traffic.
On a race course, where everyone is basically on the same playing field, and carries a rather healthy amount of experience, Yes.

Would you consider 'trying' it, IF all the other riders on the course, were 'first' timers?? NOT me!!! And now, add in the fact, that MANY of those first timers, are driving 3000 - 5000 pound door slammers. TRICKY, to say the least.

BUT I like the thought process, and the description. GOOD post.

 

I don't really know, but I doubt that advice is based upon the idea of recovering. I think it's based upon the idea that you're f'd and how to minimize just how f'd you are. There comes a point where you need to stop worrying about how to avoid an accident and start worrying about how to survive it.

 

You will not have enough power to drift on a Harley like you would in a car built for that purpose.Of course the same applies to both vehicles,the difference being stability.Obviously with four wheels you have a built in stability,make a mistake you slide,on a motorcycle you highside.

 

Yeah.. sorry.. I used a term from my competitive archery library. I should have used the term "target fixation".

Target panic is a term we use when an archer "locks up" visually when trying to hit the bulls eye. Essentially he becomes so fixated on hitting the bulls eye, he cannot effectively see it. For some, the pressure results in a mild panic situation.
The mind takes over the body and due to fear, performance anxiety, nerves, or other mental issues, the archer becomes incapable -- mentally anyway -- of hitting the target. This results of course, in a physical failure of the same.
With training (mental work) and practice (physical work), the archer becomes confident and regains the power to defeat the target and then can hit it at will. Some work at this process for years, some overcome it very fast with the right coach.

The process is eerily similar to riding through a hard curve or handling the bike in a panic situation. The rider becomes so fixated on missing the target, or they are not mentally confident in the bike and their ability to handle it, that they fail or lock up mentally.

"Missing the bulls eye" as it were, on a bike can have fatal consequences.
This is where situational awareness and a good history of playing mental "what if" games can come in handy. The physical body responds to the mental programming and if you have already fought the demons in your mind, you have a better chance of beating them when you finally do meet.


Training and practice always results in a better chance of a positive outcome, but again, recovering from a side slide on a bike, I think, is a near impossibility from even the most highly trained riders.....

The most one could probably hope for in an aggressive slide situation is that your training would help you mentally prepare for the end of flight/slide/etc.

As posted above, at that point you are in survival, not recovery, mode and a cool head might do more to save you than anything else.


I did not set out to get so deep in this answer...but there it is anyway. Enjoy.


.

 

Not more than 3 weeks ago, I had a car pull into my lane from a gravel road on my right while traveling 60 mph on a rural 2 lane, treed and hilly road.

I hit the brakes, looked for oncoming traffic (none thankfully) and fixated on the drivers head and eventually her eyes as she finally turned to see me. Once I could tell she was going to try to stop I trended towards the other lane just a bit and felt the rear start to slide out. Once I knew she was actually stopping (her car now blocking nearly all of my lane), I released the brakes and my bike indeed regained traction and stood up, but I was able to then counter steer hard and navigate around her in the other lane.

Fortunately the wheel hadn't drifted too far out of line and releasing the brake was still a relatively safe option. If I had kept the rear locked in this situation I would have slammed into her door at about 35 or 40 mph.

I continued at that 40 mph pace past that intersection and up the hill while glancing back via the mirror a few times. The lady backed up and sat there for at least the 45 seconds when I was still in view. I'm thinking she was having a hard time dealing with the fact that she had nearly taken out a motorcyclist less than 12 hours and a mile away from where two motorcyclists died that morning from a head-on.

Anyway...braking should be practiced periodically in a safe environment, but that means you're ready for it and you won't have the adrenaline helping you apply the brakes. Sure, you'll know at what point your rear wheel locks up, and if you're near the end of your tires tread life you could even practice controlled rear wheel skids (just don't allow the skid to go too far), but the only real way to get the full experience is to get into situations where you're not expecting or anticipating. Once you've survived these panic situation and they begin to come naturally, braking and /or maneuvering in these pop-up situations becomes A LOT more controlled. Hopefully you survive all of the "practice".

 

Highsides on the street are extremely rare situations and given the nature of HD's are even rarer for us.

This only is my view (and I have little experience of off-road riding or riding genuine race bikes on track at race speeds but I have been riding for 30 years on all sorts of street bikes) but I think highsides are more likely from spinning up the rear wheel in a bend in the dry than from spinning up in the wet or braking. When braking in a straight line the bike may step out (to the right for Dyna's I usually found) slightly but your instinct will be to release the brake before it gets too severe and the bike just twitches back into line. Braking in a corner can cause a lock-up but most braking ought to be on the front tyre (which can cause a washout which is a front end induced lowside) if you lock the back you could highside but a lowside is more likely - but the rear should only be brushed lightly, if at all, in a bend and is only really done to give some stability - not for slowing down. Spinning up can cause a lowside if uncontrolled but the highside comes from the sudden transition from spinning to gripping whilst leant and sliding/drifting - this is less likely in the wet because although spinning up is easier (and I get this a lot) the transition to grip is much less sudden. The longer the wheelbase and the lower the CoG the less likely a highside is and also the bike will signal it's intention much, much more clearly than a short, high sportbike which will just snap into a highside (I've only done it once and landed in a hedge - very lucky)

I'm sure others have different experiences and views but I just wanted to give my experiences an airing

 

Read Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist" vol. 1 & 2. You'll never use the rear brake again. In the books he describes the rear wheel as a gyroscope that works to keep the bike upright, even if the front wheel enters a brake induced skid. Once you stop the gyroscopic action (lock up the rear brake), the bike becomes a SLED over which you have very little or no control. The highside occurs when the gyroscopic action resumes and the "gyroscope" tries to regain it's natural position.

 

If you loose the rear tire in a turn just ride it to the ground, pick yourself and the bike up and ride to the dealer to order some cosmetic parts. You can save it by turning the bars into the direction of the slide and staying leaned away from the slide, but it is very unlikelly to be successful if you've never practiced it because it is very unnatural. Watch the video in this link, if he would have stayed in the turn he would have been much better off, just a lowside wipeout. 40 seconds in and a slo mo 2:17 into the video http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...de-229314.html

I'd sooner lowside than highside anyday, they bike will be out in front of you on a lowside and the bike will fair much better too.

 

ride them long enough and you can do donuts on dry pavement with a dresser. had a buddy show me how in the seventies, and it's a blast actually, and easier than you'd think.