Originally Posted by Robert Le Gras

When did it begin. . . this phenomenon of the other makers copying the Harley look, trying to get the Harley feel and sound?

Originally Posted by doc_cj

I always love these threads. It's kind of like revisionist versions of history. If you keep repeating to yourself something is true then it must be true.

Please take some time to study motorcycle history a little closer. You will be amazed at how little "innovation" Harley has been involved with. While they make a great bike the "real deal" was designed and produced elsewhere long before HD got into the mix.

Here's a few good books for you ...

Motorcycle: Evolution, Design, Passion by Mick Walker
The Encyclopedia of the Motorcycle by Peter Henshaw

Now, back to the point ... I hate to burst your bubble but Harley was not even close to creating the "original" ... no matter which style or design you look at. Here's a few facts for you ...

Hildebrand & Wolfmüller introduced the first commercially produced motorized bike in 1894.

Harley used more than two dozen patented designs by Hildebrand & Wolfmüller.

By 1896 American inventor E.J. Pennington coined the term "motor cycle" to describe his motorized bicycle. The term was adopted by manufacturers all over the world. By 1903 there were more than 125 manufacturers of "motor cycles" around the word, including one in Milwaukee named Harley-Davidson.

By 1903 (the year HD produced their first bike) Triumph had produced and sold more than 500 motorcycles in the US alone. Harley would not hit that number for years.

It was actually Indian that developed and patented the "Diamond Frame" that Harley later copied.

Speaking of Indian, they sold their first bike almost 2 years before Harley and had the design for a V-Twin almost 5 years before HD. They also produced their first V-Twin in 1906, 3 years before HD introduced their version.



The cruiser design had been around from at least 40 different manufacturers in Europe, US, and other parts of the world since before WWII. Funny thing is that the French car manufacturer Citroen had the same V-Twin design for one of their cars. The V-Twin design had been around since the last of the 19th century (1897) and a twin cylinder motorcycle was on design boards as early as 1882.

As for the Japanese designs ... they were actually copying Triumph, BSA, and similar British models long before they went into the cruiser market. The in-line 4 cylinder design by Honda in the 1960s was the most revolutionary design of the century.

The adoption of the V-Twin had been done by Honda as early as 1964, but it only saw limited interest as a commercial success. Consumers of the 1970s and into the 1980s preferred the smoother running in-line designs.

By the mid-80s "nostalgia" and an aggressive marketing campaign by HD saw the revival of the V-Twin design.



This part of "we" is pretty happy with the whole thing. The engineering changes and improvements coming from Great Britain, Italy, Germany, and even Japan helped make the "modern" Harley an attractive bike again. Harley used design and production processes that were used in other countries, which in turn improved HD production. We can thank the Japanese auto industry for production line improvements that helped HD stay competitive. Had Harley stayed with the old system the manufacturer likely wouldn't exist today.



Really? You mean they had a 1906 Indian there? That was the original "real thing" ... predates the HD v-twin by 3 years.



Just keep telling yourself that.