One charge dropped in Stugis bar fight
#71
09-07-2008, 04:36 PM
I'm not sure there has been a single LEO on this board that has given the IP a free pass. In my case, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based on everything I've heard, but I realize I don't know exactly what happened and that we'll all have to wait for the trial to get the rest of the story.
I carry concealed, not all the time but often. I don't drink when I carry. If he did, then I agree, he was wrong on that. I don't have a problem with him carrying in a bar, heck I did when I was in Sturgis too, but I didn't drink. My biggest issue is that everyone seems to be blaming the IP for being attacked. I don't wear a 3 piece patch, nor will I ever, but I recognize that he has a right to wear it if he wants.
What it all boils down to, for me, is this...what does it say about society, or maybe more accurately, our "biker" sub-culture, when the majority of us chastise the guy who was attacked rather than the attacker? Many seem to somehow justify the assault on this guy because he chose to wear a 3 peice patch? How incredibly freakin juvenile is that??? I don't like seeing teenagers wearing their pants halfway down their *** but I don't beat them for doing so.
The IP may be found guilty of a weapons charge if it can be proven he was under the influence of alcohol. So be it. But he should NOT be convicted of aggravated assault for protecting himself. The HA should get convicted for that one, sorry.
I carry concealed, not all the time but often. I don't drink when I carry. If he did, then I agree, he was wrong on that. I don't have a problem with him carrying in a bar, heck I did when I was in Sturgis too, but I didn't drink. My biggest issue is that everyone seems to be blaming the IP for being attacked. I don't wear a 3 piece patch, nor will I ever, but I recognize that he has a right to wear it if he wants.
What it all boils down to, for me, is this...what does it say about society, or maybe more accurately, our "biker" sub-culture, when the majority of us chastise the guy who was attacked rather than the attacker? Many seem to somehow justify the assault on this guy because he chose to wear a 3 peice patch? How incredibly freakin juvenile is that??? I don't like seeing teenagers wearing their pants halfway down their *** but I don't beat them for doing so.
The IP may be found guilty of a weapons charge if it can be proven he was under the influence of alcohol. So be it. But he should NOT be convicted of aggravated assault for protecting himself. The HA should get convicted for that one, sorry.
#72
09-07-2008, 04:54 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
First i have a ccw..Do i have the right by law to carry a ccw in to a bar ( no )it is against the law Is that coreect or not ?.....& if i do not have the right what would give a off duty leo the right?...& anything that happens form an illegal action, is illegal even if justified...There are alot of people in jail right know..that were justified in what they did but the laws say otherwise...so when it comes to society rember you work for the people,that to not look at what is justied at times..not me..
Not sure I followed the rest of your post...
#73
09-07-2008, 05:01 PM
The question is......
Now that his name has been released, and that he lives in the Seattle area......how long before the HA's go and find him? He has put not only himself, but his family in harms way. These guys don't forget.
He will be looking over his shoulder for life.
Right or wrong, it is what it is.
~Joe
Now that his name has been released, and that he lives in the Seattle area......how long before the HA's go and find him? He has put not only himself, but his family in harms way. These guys don't forget.
He will be looking over his shoulder for life.
Right or wrong, it is what it is.
~Joe
#74
09-07-2008, 05:01 PM
so you are saying frederal law gives a ( off duty leo )..the right to carry a ccw into a bar?..please tell me which federal lwa that is..i would like to read it..
#75
09-07-2008, 05:15 PM
The question is......
Now that his name has been released, and that he lives in the Seattle area......how long before the HA's go and find him? He has put not only himself, but his family in harms way. These guys don't forget.
He will be looking over his shoulder for life.
Right or wrong, it is what it is.
~Joe
Now that his name has been released, and that he lives in the Seattle area......how long before the HA's go and find him? He has put not only himself, but his family in harms way. These guys don't forget.
He will be looking over his shoulder for life.
Right or wrong, it is what it is.
~Joe
#76
09-07-2008, 05:29 PM
It would seem that hr218 federal law gives the right to a leo more rights in the ccw,parts...but it does state( the leo must not be on driugs or alchol )...which if i rember correctly it was about 1.00 am...what would a person in a bar be doing at 1.00 am..drinking cherrie coke?...also...south daokta has states rights & there state does not allow ccw into bars...& then you have the bars rights ....I am sure in place like sturgis the bar had a sighn stateing no weapons.--
permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property...so there are still many questions..
Last edited by MR. SCOOTINN; 09-07-2008 at 05:45 PM.
#77
09-07-2008, 06:06 PM
Well at least some of us here are utilizing all our brain cells.....
LOL
Tell me, let's take a poll....how many believe the HA's stayed around to be interviewed?
What ever you're drinking, give me some, 'cause that $hit sounds like it's got some kick...
Listen people...forget that I'm a copper.....I told you the story, the HA started it, the cop finished it. END OF STORY....It's been backed up by the fact that the state AG said it. Get over it people. Let it go...the HA was the only wrong one in this unfortunate story.
They IP's were there first....they didn't go looking for trouble. They didn't call for back-up...They didn't run after the fight...They were confronted, they tried to de-escalate the situation, they were leaving when it was apparent it wasn't going to work, one of them was attacked, he defended his life and he's alive because of it....
Put yourselves in his shoes...what would you've done? According to most of your responses, or misplaced bravado, you'd be dead. Please tell me what you would've done, for real...Seriously, I'm not being confrontational, but don't let me hear about how tough you are or how you wouldn't be in that situation, forget how everyone would've left their gun out side or home...I'm pulling the B.S, flag on this one...hypothetically, you're in his shoes, you have the means to defend yourself...WHAT DO YO DO? WHAT DO YOU?
I'll tell you what you do, you defend your life. Plain & simple.
Forget about his record at work. 2 disciplinary actions in a 15 yr(I'm not sure of the exact years)career is NOTHING to sneeze at....All of you who have friends in LE, escpecially in larger metro areas like Seattle...ask them....I'll also point out that if I'm correct, one of them might've been deemed unfounded....Bottom line this point if irrevelent in the grand scheme of things...
If he wasn't attacked, not a soul would've known who was carrying and who wasn't...Thank God for himself and his family he was though...Listen it's unfortunate that someone the HA got shot, but remember it was HIS OWN ACTIONS THAT BROUGHT IT ABOUT...HIS OWN RESPONSIBILITY ..Noone else is to be held accountable...
Can we end this already?
LOL
Tell me, let's take a poll....how many believe the HA's stayed around to be interviewed?
What ever you're drinking, give me some, 'cause that $hit sounds like it's got some kick...
Listen people...forget that I'm a copper.....I told you the story, the HA started it, the cop finished it. END OF STORY....It's been backed up by the fact that the state AG said it. Get over it people. Let it go...the HA was the only wrong one in this unfortunate story.
They IP's were there first....they didn't go looking for trouble. They didn't call for back-up...They didn't run after the fight...They were confronted, they tried to de-escalate the situation, they were leaving when it was apparent it wasn't going to work, one of them was attacked, he defended his life and he's alive because of it....
Put yourselves in his shoes...what would you've done? According to most of your responses, or misplaced bravado, you'd be dead. Please tell me what you would've done, for real...Seriously, I'm not being confrontational, but don't let me hear about how tough you are or how you wouldn't be in that situation, forget how everyone would've left their gun out side or home...I'm pulling the B.S, flag on this one...hypothetically, you're in his shoes, you have the means to defend yourself...WHAT DO YO DO? WHAT DO YOU?
I'll tell you what you do, you defend your life. Plain & simple.
Forget about his record at work. 2 disciplinary actions in a 15 yr(I'm not sure of the exact years)career is NOTHING to sneeze at....All of you who have friends in LE, escpecially in larger metro areas like Seattle...ask them....I'll also point out that if I'm correct, one of them might've been deemed unfounded....Bottom line this point if irrevelent in the grand scheme of things...
If he wasn't attacked, not a soul would've known who was carrying and who wasn't...Thank God for himself and his family he was though...Listen it's unfortunate that someone the HA got shot, but remember it was HIS OWN ACTIONS THAT BROUGHT IT ABOUT...HIS OWN RESPONSIBILITY ..Noone else is to be held accountable...
Can we end this already?
#78
09-07-2008, 06:13 PM
I'm not sure there has been a single LEO on this board that has given the IP a free pass. In my case, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based on everything I've heard, but I realize I don't know exactly what happened and that we'll all have to wait for the trial to get the rest of the story.
I carry concealed, not all the time but often. I don't drink when I carry. If he did, then I agree, he was wrong on that. I don't have a problem with him carrying in a bar, heck I did when I was in Sturgis too, but I didn't drink. My biggest issue is that everyone seems to be blaming the IP for being attacked. I don't wear a 3 piece patch, nor will I ever, but I recognize that he has a right to wear it if he wants.
What it all boils down to, for me, is this...what does it say about society, or maybe more accurately, our "biker" sub-culture, when the majority of us chastise the guy who was attacked rather than the attacker? Many seem to somehow justify the assault on this guy because he chose to wear a 3 peice patch? How incredibly freakin juvenile is that??? I don't like seeing teenagers wearing their pants halfway down their *** but I don't beat them for doing so.
The IP may be found guilty of a weapons charge if it can be proven he was under the influence of alcohol. So be it. But he should NOT be convicted of aggravated assault for protecting himself. The HA should get convicted for that one, sorry.
I carry concealed, not all the time but often. I don't drink when I carry. If he did, then I agree, he was wrong on that. I don't have a problem with him carrying in a bar, heck I did when I was in Sturgis too, but I didn't drink. My biggest issue is that everyone seems to be blaming the IP for being attacked. I don't wear a 3 piece patch, nor will I ever, but I recognize that he has a right to wear it if he wants.
What it all boils down to, for me, is this...what does it say about society, or maybe more accurately, our "biker" sub-culture, when the majority of us chastise the guy who was attacked rather than the attacker? Many seem to somehow justify the assault on this guy because he chose to wear a 3 peice patch? How incredibly freakin juvenile is that??? I don't like seeing teenagers wearing their pants halfway down their *** but I don't beat them for doing so.
The IP may be found guilty of a weapons charge if it can be proven he was under the influence of alcohol. So be it. But he should NOT be convicted of aggravated assault for protecting himself. The HA should get convicted for that one, sorry.
I believe that the legal definition of "jury" is "the finder of fact."
I still have this nagging doubt, because I can't understand the LEOs:
Being in Sturgis
In a bar
Late at night/early in the morning
With concealed weapons
While drinking
While trying to look like 1%ers
And all the time trying to play the Lilly-White card because they are LEOs.
While I have learned to have the utmost respect for most LEOs and that includes you, Stro, my life experience tells me there is a small minority of bad apples in the bunch, as in all of life.
I'm willing to wait and see if there is actually a trial (or charges dismissed) and if so, the outcome. I don't know what happened.
$.02.
JB
Last edited by JBaker421; 09-07-2008 at 06:18 PM.
#79
09-07-2008, 06:17 PM
The question is......
Now that his name has been released, and that he lives in the Seattle area......how long before the HA's go and find him? He has put not only himself, but his family in harms way. These guys don't forget.
He will be looking over his shoulder for life.
Right or wrong, it is what it is.
~Joe
Now that his name has been released, and that he lives in the Seattle area......how long before the HA's go and find him? He has put not only himself, but his family in harms way. These guys don't forget.
He will be looking over his shoulder for life.
Right or wrong, it is what it is.
~Joe
I have heard, however, that 1%ers are reluctant to go after LEOs and may even discipline one of their own for doing it, but I don't know for sure.
??
#80
09-07-2008, 06:25 PM
Road Warrior
Depends on who the aggressor is, if you are minding your own business, are attacked and in fear for your life. It sure is justified. You start a fight and start losing so you pull a gun and shoot, it's not justified since you initiated the crime.
If you're choking me out after attacking me, I'm doing something about it whether you think it's dirty fighting or not. I haven't been on a play ground in 30 years and you didn't attack and choke me because you wanted to shine my shoes.
Me I try to live by the 3 S rule.
Avoid Stupid things
Avoid Stupid places
Avoid Stupid people
Sometimes things just aren't avoidable. In this case, we may never know the entire story since there is always three sides, in the case the IP, the HA and the truth somewhere in the middle.
If you're choking me out after attacking me, I'm doing something about it whether you think it's dirty fighting or not. I haven't been on a play ground in 30 years and you didn't attack and choke me because you wanted to shine my shoes.
Me I try to live by the 3 S rule.
Avoid Stupid things
Avoid Stupid places
Avoid Stupid people
Sometimes things just aren't avoidable. In this case, we may never know the entire story since there is always three sides, in the case the IP, the HA and the truth somewhere in the middle.
If your minding your own business and somebody attacks you I don't care if you do shoot them to keep from getting a black eye. I don't believe anyone has to retreat from anything. But they can't use their pistol to back up their aggression.
And that isn't what these charges are about anyway, they are charged because the aren't allowed to carry and drink at the same time, and if anyone has to follow the rules then everyone has to follow the rules.