Originally Posted by txfxstrider

Seems to me he handled it.

Originally Posted by stro1965

The other threads stayed decent for what, 100+ posts? Nice to see the anti-police mentality is still alive and well.

Originally Posted by RIDEIRISH

FYI...Insider Info will be dispenced...All cop haters, prepare for response...

The HA in question, McGuire, was upset because when he & his crew arrived at the bar, the IP were already there. And according to bar manager, the IP were respectable, quiet and decent guys enjoying themselves. Not causing any problems.

HA McGuire becomes visibly irate and verbally confronts IP. (Someone in his crew made a call for more HA to respond)(At this time, bar manager also calls 911 requesting police presence be increased because of the agitated posture of HA McGuire's crew). IP's attempt to buy them beers as a gesture of the fact that they're not looking for trouble, they just want to enjoy themselves.(HA's are arriving outside) This enrages HA McGuire. IP's decide it's getting hot, decide to leave. IP says he needs to hit the head before departing, observes the pathway to the head to be clear of HA and he heads over to it alone, while his friends head toward the door. (extra police arrive outside) As IP is about to enter head, he's attacked from behind being hit in the head with an unknown object, he goes down. He's out of view from his friends as they head toward the door due to the crowd. They're unable to view the fight on the ground and think all is well. AS IP feels himself starting to go lights out from the choke, he pulls his firearm and fires 2 rounds from close contact distance around himself to his side and strikes McGuire in the abdomen and upper leg.

Straight from the State AG.....that's what went down in a nutshell...like it or not.
The HA had the beef and HE got gut checked because he thought he could bully another human being.
The DA is a local county DA. He's under immense pressure from multiple sides to be fair and not put forth a slanted view or appear biased. I could indicte a ham sandwich. I feel, based on my experience in LE and the court system, the weapons charges will eventually be unsubstantiated and dismissed. Now the assault charge, it will be dropped because he was defending his life. If he can articulate that he was in fear for his life, then he walks on that charge. I'm not privy to the correct details on the perjury charge. It could be one of a few things. So I'll reserve comment for now.

First I want to applaud those posting here that are LEO's and trying their best to remain calm and friendly while debating this topic. Apparently we are out numbered here so far, LOL.

Now, I applaud those on here that are trying to remain neutral. Even with the details I've provided. I understand noone here knows me from Adam, and to most of you, I'm just another dirty pig. I can live with that. I'm secure in who I am and what I do for a living. I've seen all manner of your attitudes, almost daily while I work. It seems the ones with such negative attitudes seem to be the ones I interact with most....LOL I can't seem to figure it out. Do I see a pattern here? I never claimed to be a detective, at least a good one, LOL

I can sit here all day, name profession and I'll give you the bad apples....sure there are some coppers with the wrong personalities and attitudes, who somehow slipped through the cracks. But like I said, I'd be hard pressed to find one profession that doesn't have it's rotten apples.

To all the other LE guys here, I only ask one thing. On other threads, there's a few instances of those of us in LE clubs naming which ones we're in and which ones are supposedly outlaw like or emulate 1% clubs. We need to stop bashing each other. No one club is any better then the other. Ive seen bonehead Blue Knights and Iron Pigs..and more often then not, I've also seen complete 100% professionals in both clubs. For the record, I'm in a national LEMC myself and have friends in many LEMC's across the nation.

And to the haters of LEMC's...I only say this. Believe what you will. But as I said earlier, I can find the bad apples anywhere. Are there badapples in LEMC's, sure there are, just as there are bad apples in all clubs, 1%'s and AMA clubs , you name it. Just as I'm also reasonbly sure there are some down right decent, hard working guys there too. But the bottom line, we're here to stay. We ain't going anywhere. The brothers of these clubs are just as dedicated to each other as any other club. The feelings of brotherhood, friendship and loyalty run just as deep. Believe that. As one of the posters here mentioned in another thread, my lifestyle and those of a 1%er, just might mirror each other in many ways....I know a few members of a international 1%er club. This is what they have told me. This is not just my thoughts. I understand it might be difficult for some to imagine that.

That's all from me for now. Please keep it clean..debate like men, not some keyboard commando badass biker dude. It defeats the purpose of this very forum.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Roadjunkie1

I refused to read the other (last) ten pages of bullshyt regarding this incident. Aww the poor HA was picked on again...BS! Anyone who has been around awhile knows what happens when you mix the HA, Booze and a social event. Had these officers (or anyone else for that matter) not been armed there would have been a pack of these wild dogs all over them. Maybe even beaten to DEATH!!! Forget about a fair fight because that doesn't exist in the HA book of rules.

F**k the Stugis and SD authorities. I am sure the officiers in question did not go there with the intent of striking up a brawl! Can the same be said about the HA? Most police officiers are required to carry their weapons 24/7 (in Chicago anyway). Seems to me the HA picked the wrong dudes to mess with this time.

This anti-cop crap makes me want to puke!

Thank you officiers!

Originally Posted by pococj

Man, this is getting to be a quiet riot, reading thru all this stuff. Lotsa good points from many different angles, along with the unfortunate lack of understanding from the usual few.

I ain't going to get into the specifics of this particular bit of drama. It'll play out in the courts, one way or another, and when it's over there will probably be nobody completely happy.

Really liked what the Gump has been trying to get across. But it seems that it just sails on over most of y'all, or maybe it's that you just can't understand the point 'cause you ain't in that particular situation. And then there are a few who bang the keyboard 'cause they know they can with no real consequences. That's pretty much how all these type threads have run ever since I've been on this joint, and in several other joints before this one. Probably how life works out, too. Whatever ...

Whatever happened in that bar, and whatever was done to whom by whom is only the symptom of a disease, if you will. The "rest of the story" is the disease. I gots my opinion on that disease, so -

Most all y'all know that the outlaw motorcycle groups have been around for at least 55 - 60 years, if not longer. A goodly portion might have an idea why these outlaw clubs happened. For whatever reason, that part of the biker culture has evolved until it is what it is today. No one is going to change that; it'll just keep on doing the evolving, driven from within and from without.

Part of that outlaw culture is the 1%er clubs. There are really only a few of them, and they tend to try and hold on to what they consider is theirs, be that dress, behavior, rites of passage, or territory. The rest of the outlaw clubs pretty much follow that same line, but they just don't have, or maybe even want, the notoriety of the 1%ers.

This next bit is the single most important part of all this. And it doesn't matter one particle of fart dust whether you agree, disagree, or don't care; it does not change what the reality is!

So - the 3 piece patch bit belongs to those who've earned it. That's it.

Those who are part of the whole outlaw bit, and by extension the 1% bit, just flat out don't care whether you agree with that or not. They'll do what they feel is in their best interest, whenever and wherever they choose. Is that right? Doesn't matter. It just "IS". They are willing to pay whatever price the rest of society sets on that.

If you want to wear a 3 piece, have yourself a blast and wear it. But be willing to live up to what it represents, and that includes defending it from all attacks and all comers, whether they be other 3 piece wearers, or the heavy hand of the baddest law enforcement agency in the country. If you, individually or as a group, aren't willing to do that, then you've forfeited the right by custom to wear the 3 piece.

What I wrote above is not meant to be taken as my opinion. It is meant to be taken as what I have seen and been a part of, on both sides, for the past 35+ years.

This next is my opinion - The IPMC lost any right (by custom) they might've had of wearing a 3 piece patch when they sanitized their web site. They said their piece, and then turned their backs on it. That's it; credibility is gone.

Now, I don't care whether you agree with anything I've said, and I don't care whether you don't. You can argue any of the points from any angle, and it ain't gonna change a thing. As trite and overworked as it is - It is what it is.


OHFFOH

Originally Posted by Jimbo60

I don't think that this has turned into a cop 'bashing' thread at all.

It is however, reflecting the general polarization of society at large, regarding LE.

Conventional wisdom tells us to respect and honor the police. When their behaviors are not honorable, the respect no longer applies.

Being in a bar, at a biker rally, dressed up like a bad**z, at 1:30 in the morning is not what I expect from LE.

Critcism of LE on this thread - yes. Criticism, however, is not 'bashing'.




................ Jim

Originally Posted by Da Gumpmeister

Point made, bad choice of word on MY part for this forum. He wasn't playing 'biker' he was playing 1%er. The general public, however, is not that clear as to 1%er vs 'biker' vs 'rider'. Call them uneducated, call them naive, call them uninformed, the bottom line, is he was crossing the line IMFUO, and from what I am hearing on the streets, so do a ton of other ppl. And I am hearing that from more LEOs than I have from the HA's, Los Valentes, SOS, BSMC, and other 3 piece clubs.
I think he had the right to walk into any bar he 'chooses'. Just like me, and you. Just like any one on here can 'choose' to sit in the same bar, drink and crawl into his car and leave. At that point, like it or not, he accepted the consequences that go with that choice. And in this case, the consequences are not quite so good, just like drinkin' and driving. And the HA made a choice, too. He likewise must live with the consequences of that choice.

I truly enjoy America. Just read my posts. As such, I have chosen for over 30 yrs, NOT to prospect with any club I have ridden with. That includes the HAs. I do not want to limit where and when I can go. I ride with several LEOs here. I also attend functions at the HA clubhouse, and other MC's. I 'choose' to accept the consequences of said association. Hard to miss my scoot when it has been parked in front of the clubhouse. But I do not conduct illegal activities, I don't drink, and I sure as h*ll don't carry there. Even tho, I have the right. But I have been hassled leaving. NO benefit of the doubt, there. Guilty until you prove not drinking, carrying, drugging.
Guilt by association I think it is what it is called. Does that likewise mean I am guilty of being a LEO in the HAs eyes cause I ride with LEOs, or associate with them? Not hardly. They know me.

Yes, he had the right to walk into the bar. At that point, he also had the responsibilty, and the consequences, that goes with the right to choose. And I still say, he was an idiot LEO. Just like an HA waltzing into the police station, to 'prove' a point, DOH!!!!! But the HAs I have known over the years, have figured that out.
Now, again, if you believe this guy was just John Q. Public LEO, exercising his 'right' to walk into any bar he chooses, then you can believe that. I believe the guy was playin' Billy Badazz, based on his public record, his display of the 3 piece patch in a known hang out, and displayed unbelieveably p*ss poor judgement. Whether he was 'legal' or not. And unfortunately, his choice turned out to be not so good, for more than just him.
I am anti-idiot, not anti-LEO, anti-1%er, or anti-choice. I don't care if it is the patch, the badge, the sportbike, or the gun. He displayed really p*ss poor judgement for a 1%er, let alone a LEO. Think about it, how would a bunch of LEOs at a get together in their watering hole, respond to a few HAs walking in with CCW, and brandishing an attitude, especially if one of them was known to have put one of your own away for being a dirty cop? And if you say you would be congenial and courteous, then you, sirs, are angels here on earth, pics of the 'halo' would help. But according to one of the posts earlier, it was pointed out that the HAs wouldn't go after the LEO because of the 'blue' line. Is that any better than what the HAs are about? Red and white, or blue, guess it makes no difference to some.
To this ol' bikin' bastud, it does. If you want to keep playing with fire, yadda, yadda. If one believes they are above the consequences, some one, an HA, a LEO, a Mongol, an Outlaw, or possibly just a 'citizen' is going to trim the tailfeathers.
You can believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. That, Sir, is what makes this a GREAT country. I believe I will not drink and drive, causes conflict with the LEOs round here. I believe I will not waltz around with a 3 piece patch, playing badazz, it causes conflict with the HAs and Outlaws round here. But you can do both if you so choose. This is not my first rodeo, and I do not believe it is yours either.