More fallout from the Iron Pigs /HA "get together"
#192
09-06-2008, 12:03 AM
Extreme HDF Member
+1
It's kinda like saying PeeWee Herman gives pervs a bad name...........ROTFL
#193
09-06-2008, 12:09 AM
Cruiser
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Missouri
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Man, this is getting to be a quiet riot,
Whatever happened in that bar, and whatever was done to whom by whom is only the symptom of a disease, if you will. The "rest of the story" is the disease. I gots my opinion on that disease, so -
"The disease as I see it is that society has been led to believe that the Hells Angels are such a "notorious, hell raising, ruthless, law breaking, outlaw motorcyle gang" that they are to be feared by all. And we have fed on that very belief, as indicated here by most of the posts. In addition, I see that very attitude displayed by some of the patch holders at various rallies where they walk around with their chests pumped out daring anyone to cause a confrontation."
Most all y'all know that the outlaw motorcycle groups have been around for at least 55 - 60 years, if not longer. A goodly portion might have an idea why these outlaw clubs happened. For whatever reason, that part of the biker culture has evolved until it is what it is today. No one is going to change that; it'll just keep on doing the evolving, driven from within and from without.
"I know how long they have been around and further more I know "Why" they happened. They did not like "authority, the man, the system" telling them what to do. They joined/banded together and decided that "they" would defy authority and do what/as they pleased. Here is where it all began. Law enforcement did not make the laws that they "OMG's" decided that "they" where not going to abide by, but yet they have chose to hate and defy "The man" instead of complying with the laws and banding together trying to change them. Law enforcement simply enforced the laws as set out by the legislators. Evolution? Maybe the tide is turning and in fact you are seeing evolution. Now someone, Law enforcement, has decided that these OMG's are not going to set the rules and that they are not going to run rampant and do as they please." Evolution? Perhaps."
Part of that outlaw culture is the 1%er clubs. There are really only a few of them, and they tend to try and hold on to what they consider is theirs, be that dress, behavior, rites of passage, or territory. The rest of the outlaw clubs pretty much follow that same line, but they just don't have, or maybe even want, the notoriety of the 1%ers.
"You say it in your own words. OUTLAW! What is the definition of outlaw? And you ALL fault law enforcement for fighting the "Outlaw". What are you people thinking? What if, for only a short period of time, there was no Law Enforcement? What would society be like? Let's all go to bed tonioght and pray to Our Heavenly Fahter that tomorrow, there will be no law enforcement, and continuie to pray that if He, Our Heavenly Father would just take away law enfrocement for maybe, let's say, 30 days, we would all be soooo better off. Lord let us pray!"
his next bit is the single most important part of all this. And it doesn't matter one particle of fart dust whether you agree, disagree, or don't care; it does not change what the reality is!
So - the 3 piece patch bit belongs to those who've earned it. That's it.
Those who are part of the whole outlaw bit, and by extension the 1% bit, just flat out don't care whether you agree with that or not. They'll do what they feel is in their best interest, whenever and wherever they choose. Is that right? Doesn't matter. It just "IS". They are willing to pay whatever price the rest of society sets on that.
"Do you know what you just said? The OMG/1% have developed a way of life and we as a society have to deal with it. As a matter of fact, if enforcement action is taken against the OMG's, society will take a stand and scream out that OMG's are being mistreated and law enforcment is being to harsh. Wow, I hope they don't decide that they (OMG) want to come into my neighborhood and do what they want to do."
If you want to wear a 3 piece, have yourself a blast and wear it. But be willing to live up to what it represents, and that includes defending it from all attacks and all comers, whether they be other 3 piece wearers, or the heavy hand of the baddest law enforcement agency in the country. If you, individually or as a group, aren't willing to do that, then you've forfeited the right by custom to wear the 3 piece.
"Let me think here for a minute! You speak of 3 piece and relate that to the 1% outlaw life style. Furthermore, you say that if you choose to wear the 3 piece be prepared to defend it from all attacks and all comers. Well, I happen to know as a result of my very profession that there are 1% clubs that have 2 peice patches and even some that only have a 1 peice patch. Should we all just go out and buy neon green t-shirts to wear if we decide to ride?"
What I wrote above is not meant to be taken as my opinion. It is meant to be taken as what I have seen and been a part of, on both sides, for the past 35+ years.
This next is my opinion - The IPMC lost any right (by custom) they might've had of wearing a 3 piece patch when they sanitized their web site. They said their piece, and then turned their backs on it. That's it; credibility is gone.
"I couldn't agree with you more. But at the same time I'll go on record as saying that the website change was more than likely done under pressure by the higher ups. Will it go back to what it was? Who knows. It very well could because the website is in no way affiliated with the Seattle PD. Don't be suprised by anything at this point. I surrely won't"
Now, I don't care whether you agree with anything I've said, and I don't care whether you don't. You can argue any of the points from any angle, and it ain't gonna change a thing. As trite and overworked as it is - It is what it is.
OHFFOH
Whatever happened in that bar, and whatever was done to whom by whom is only the symptom of a disease, if you will. The "rest of the story" is the disease. I gots my opinion on that disease, so -
"The disease as I see it is that society has been led to believe that the Hells Angels are such a "notorious, hell raising, ruthless, law breaking, outlaw motorcyle gang" that they are to be feared by all. And we have fed on that very belief, as indicated here by most of the posts. In addition, I see that very attitude displayed by some of the patch holders at various rallies where they walk around with their chests pumped out daring anyone to cause a confrontation."
Most all y'all know that the outlaw motorcycle groups have been around for at least 55 - 60 years, if not longer. A goodly portion might have an idea why these outlaw clubs happened. For whatever reason, that part of the biker culture has evolved until it is what it is today. No one is going to change that; it'll just keep on doing the evolving, driven from within and from without.
"I know how long they have been around and further more I know "Why" they happened. They did not like "authority, the man, the system" telling them what to do. They joined/banded together and decided that "they" would defy authority and do what/as they pleased. Here is where it all began. Law enforcement did not make the laws that they "OMG's" decided that "they" where not going to abide by, but yet they have chose to hate and defy "The man" instead of complying with the laws and banding together trying to change them. Law enforcement simply enforced the laws as set out by the legislators. Evolution? Maybe the tide is turning and in fact you are seeing evolution. Now someone, Law enforcement, has decided that these OMG's are not going to set the rules and that they are not going to run rampant and do as they please." Evolution? Perhaps."
Part of that outlaw culture is the 1%er clubs. There are really only a few of them, and they tend to try and hold on to what they consider is theirs, be that dress, behavior, rites of passage, or territory. The rest of the outlaw clubs pretty much follow that same line, but they just don't have, or maybe even want, the notoriety of the 1%ers.
"You say it in your own words. OUTLAW! What is the definition of outlaw? And you ALL fault law enforcement for fighting the "Outlaw". What are you people thinking? What if, for only a short period of time, there was no Law Enforcement? What would society be like? Let's all go to bed tonioght and pray to Our Heavenly Fahter that tomorrow, there will be no law enforcement, and continuie to pray that if He, Our Heavenly Father would just take away law enfrocement for maybe, let's say, 30 days, we would all be soooo better off. Lord let us pray!"
his next bit is the single most important part of all this. And it doesn't matter one particle of fart dust whether you agree, disagree, or don't care; it does not change what the reality is!
So - the 3 piece patch bit belongs to those who've earned it. That's it.
Those who are part of the whole outlaw bit, and by extension the 1% bit, just flat out don't care whether you agree with that or not. They'll do what they feel is in their best interest, whenever and wherever they choose. Is that right? Doesn't matter. It just "IS". They are willing to pay whatever price the rest of society sets on that.
"Do you know what you just said? The OMG/1% have developed a way of life and we as a society have to deal with it. As a matter of fact, if enforcement action is taken against the OMG's, society will take a stand and scream out that OMG's are being mistreated and law enforcment is being to harsh. Wow, I hope they don't decide that they (OMG) want to come into my neighborhood and do what they want to do."
If you want to wear a 3 piece, have yourself a blast and wear it. But be willing to live up to what it represents, and that includes defending it from all attacks and all comers, whether they be other 3 piece wearers, or the heavy hand of the baddest law enforcement agency in the country. If you, individually or as a group, aren't willing to do that, then you've forfeited the right by custom to wear the 3 piece.
"Let me think here for a minute! You speak of 3 piece and relate that to the 1% outlaw life style. Furthermore, you say that if you choose to wear the 3 piece be prepared to defend it from all attacks and all comers. Well, I happen to know as a result of my very profession that there are 1% clubs that have 2 peice patches and even some that only have a 1 peice patch. Should we all just go out and buy neon green t-shirts to wear if we decide to ride?"
What I wrote above is not meant to be taken as my opinion. It is meant to be taken as what I have seen and been a part of, on both sides, for the past 35+ years.
This next is my opinion - The IPMC lost any right (by custom) they might've had of wearing a 3 piece patch when they sanitized their web site. They said their piece, and then turned their backs on it. That's it; credibility is gone.
"I couldn't agree with you more. But at the same time I'll go on record as saying that the website change was more than likely done under pressure by the higher ups. Will it go back to what it was? Who knows. It very well could because the website is in no way affiliated with the Seattle PD. Don't be suprised by anything at this point. I surrely won't"
Now, I don't care whether you agree with anything I've said, and I don't care whether you don't. You can argue any of the points from any angle, and it ain't gonna change a thing. As trite and overworked as it is - It is what it is.
OHFFOH
Don't hate the game,
hate the player!
#194
09-06-2008, 12:22 AM
pococj,
With all due respect and while I enjoyed your enlightening thread it missed one big important part (uless it flew right over my head, which is possible)........that being the IPMC (police) emmulating a percieved criminal element. Which one are they? Cop? Or criminal?
With this and the new Sons of Anarchy series I expect the motorcycle community, which is probably at an all time high, begin to see a surge of new clubs with no sense or understanding of tradition.
With all due respect and while I enjoyed your enlightening thread it missed one big important part (uless it flew right over my head, which is possible)........that being the IPMC (police) emmulating a percieved criminal element. Which one are they? Cop? Or criminal?
With this and the new Sons of Anarchy series I expect the motorcycle community, which is probably at an all time high, begin to see a surge of new clubs with no sense or understanding of tradition.
#195
09-06-2008, 12:27 AM
Step away from the crack pipe dude!
First of all, the post started out (simply) as a post about a news paper article. Period! That opened up a dialogue where everyone that thought they had a "Bad cop" story posted it, which had nothing to do with the origianal post. Do you want post after post of Hells Angel stories or 1% stories. It's as simple as starting with the 06 rally when two HA's opened fire (unprevoked) on a group of Mongols at Legion Lake. So yeah, this is a cop bashing thread. Need I say more.
Additionally, what you said in a sense is that as a LEO, you can not be in a bar, at a biker rally at 1:30 in the morning because that is not honorable and goes against what the public expects of them and therefore there should be no repsect for that/those particular law enforcement officer(s). Give me a phucking break. The only part I left out in what you said was that they are in a bar, at a rally, at 1:30 in the morning "Dressed like a badazz". Again I say, put the pipe down and let's talk. Although what I might have to say is obviously nothing you will agree with because after all, I too, have been in bars at 1:30 in the morning, at rallies, except I wasn't dressed as a badazz.
So really, what comes into play here is your opinon of what a bad azz is or what a badazz looks like. Obviously, someone wearing a vest or similar article of clothing that has an additional cloth like material applied that some refer to as 3 peice patch constitutes dressing like a badazz. Well that my freind does not make sense to me. In fact, I couldn't begin to describe what dressing like a badazz even looks like!
Don't hate the game,
hate the player.
First of all, the post started out (simply) as a post about a news paper article. Period! That opened up a dialogue where everyone that thought they had a "Bad cop" story posted it, which had nothing to do with the origianal post. Do you want post after post of Hells Angel stories or 1% stories. It's as simple as starting with the 06 rally when two HA's opened fire (unprevoked) on a group of Mongols at Legion Lake. So yeah, this is a cop bashing thread. Need I say more.
Additionally, what you said in a sense is that as a LEO, you can not be in a bar, at a biker rally at 1:30 in the morning because that is not honorable and goes against what the public expects of them and therefore there should be no repsect for that/those particular law enforcement officer(s). Give me a phucking break. The only part I left out in what you said was that they are in a bar, at a rally, at 1:30 in the morning "Dressed like a badazz". Again I say, put the pipe down and let's talk. Although what I might have to say is obviously nothing you will agree with because after all, I too, have been in bars at 1:30 in the morning, at rallies, except I wasn't dressed as a badazz.
So really, what comes into play here is your opinon of what a bad azz is or what a badazz looks like. Obviously, someone wearing a vest or similar article of clothing that has an additional cloth like material applied that some refer to as 3 peice patch constitutes dressing like a badazz. Well that my freind does not make sense to me. In fact, I couldn't begin to describe what dressing like a badazz even looks like!
Don't hate the game,
hate the player.
Big difference here and in this circumstance,bottom line, 1%'s don't advertise being one thing then act another. Unlike the IPMC who set a confusing precedent. Your post waters the issue into symantics and trifflings in the LEO's favor. Fact is, as an active member of the LEO community if you don't think you have an obligation to conduct yourself in a respectful manner off and on the job instead of swinging your career like a weapon when not on duty, then perhaps your in the wrong line of work.
Last edited by badinfluence63; 09-06-2008 at 12:34 AM.
#196
09-06-2008, 01:09 AM
Cruiser
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Missouri
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Big difference here and in this circumstance,bottom line, 1%'s don't advertise being one thing then act another. Unlike the IPMC who set a confusing precedent. Your post waters the issue into symantics and trifflings in the LEO's favor. Fact is, as an active member of the LEO community if you don't think you have an obligation to conduct yourself in a respectful manner off and on the job instead of swinging your career like a weapon when not on duty, then perhaps your in the wrong line of work.
And with all due respect to you BI63, where were the four officers or the firefighter conducting themselves in a disrespectful manner? Because they were wearing a vest that had a patch on the back? Forget for just a minute their website and what you know about the Iron Pigs based on the website. How were they behaving in anything other than a respectful manner. You know what? If those five officers had been in that bar without colors and a fight between the HA's and John Q Public would have taken place, and the officers would have intervened, this conversation would net be taking place. Fact is, the HA's took exception to the Iron Pigs and tried to make a statement! I believe the bar owner said himself that they (IP's) had all been in the bar at various times during the week and were just a bunch of fun loving guys having a good time. In fact, and I quote, he said they, "never caused a problem". But of coarse you, in your deep seated underlying issues with law enforcement apparently think that the were acting disrepectful. God you guys kill me!
#197
09-06-2008, 02:47 AM
And with all due respect to you BI63, where were the four officers or the firefighter conducting themselves in a disrespectful manner? Because they were wearing a vest that had a patch on the back? Forget for just a minute their website and what you know about the Iron Pigs based on the website. How were they behaving in anything other than a respectful manner. You know what? If those five officers had been in that bar without colors and a fight between the HA's and John Q Public would have taken place, and the officers would have intervened, this conversation would net be taking place. Fact is, the HA's took exception to the Iron Pigs and tried to make a statement! I believe the bar owner said himself that they (IP's) had all been in the bar at various times during the week and were just a bunch of fun loving guys having a good time. In fact, and I quote, he said they, "never caused a problem". But of coarse(course) you, in your deep seated underlying issues with law enforcement apparently think that the were acting disrepectful. God you guys kill me!
However as I have expressed from the very beginning, I predict the IMPC will come out of this smelling like roses because the system they work for will burn the midnite oil smoothing this one over, making it look all official and proper and in the LEO's favor. And the spin doctors will work their magic and all will be well in LEO land. Thats what they do. I can give examples. And once the initial fall out is settled and in the privacy of the LEO's convenience, the PR concerns regarding the IPMC existence will be addressed at that time. Still no flies on the HA. They aren't pretending to be something they are not. The IPMC are.
Last edited by badinfluence63; 09-06-2008 at 02:54 AM.
#198
09-06-2008, 02:55 AM
Ultimate HDF Member
Not to stir the pot. 
. BUT. it does seem like the IP won this confrontation with the HA. Am I wrong that there is only one guy in the hospital?
Don't matter whether it was with a fist, foot, broken bottle, cue stick, knife or gun; winning is everything when you are a grown man.
. BUT. it does seem like the IP won this confrontation with the HA. Am I wrong that there is only one guy in the hospital? Don't matter whether it was with a fist, foot, broken bottle, cue stick, knife or gun; winning is everything when you are a grown man.
#199
09-06-2008, 02:58 AM
Not to stir the pot. . BUT. it does seem like the IP won this confrontation with the HA. Am I wrong that there is only one guy in the hospital?
Don't matter whether it was with a fist, foot, broken bottle, cue stick, knife or gun; winning is everything when you are a grown man.
. BUT. it does seem like the IP won this confrontation with the HA. Am I wrong that there is only one guy in the hospital? Don't matter whether it was with a fist, foot, broken bottle, cue stick, knife or gun; winning is everything when you are a grown man.