- personally , I don't think that you can ever steer INTO
a corner (at speed) and hope to clear the corner without
crashing. You can talk all you want , but physics will win.

- from own experience learning with my Heri.Softail (as
my first-ever-motorcycle) , its not countersteering thats
the "problem" (ie , its natural , or you'll crash = simple),
but rather the rider fighting the bike's lean as she corners.

- that and the failure to look where you want to go (ie ,
the bike will follow your eyes) has probably done in more
bikers than any other thing , ever.

.

 

Again...I feel that some people don't understand what countersteering even is, when you tell them they think you are crazy because it does not make sense to them. This doesn't mean they don't do it, just that they don't understand or even know that they are doing it.

I understand what you are saying about the guys that have a really hard time in the curves. These guys obviously don't know how to ride, but the only way they will make the turn is by doing at least a little countersteering which they do automatically when they lean, they just don't know it. Frankly these guys should be off the roads until they take a class.

 

One point I disagree with people in this thread on is that the force causing the turning is produce solely by leaning. The forces needed to turn are produced by a combination of leaning and steering.

Steer too much and you'll go down on the high side. Lean too much and you'll go down on the low side. There is a band between those two extremes. The faster you take a curve the narrower that band gets all else being equal. People drag metal all the time when there is no need to do so because they rely too much upon leaning and not enough on steering.

Lean you, not the bike is mainly psychological. It causes you to rely more upon steering and less upon leaning. Counter-steering as a technique is a way to get the bike to lean in the direction you need it to lean. Once leaning how much you have to lean to make the curve depends upon how much you steer.

Most pictures where people say someone failed to counter-steer it is that they failed to steer. They are dragging metal until they lift the back wheel off the pavement because leaning alone will not produce enough turning force to get them around the curve. Personally, I can think of no better example that leaning alone just won't do the job than dumping a bike on the low side. A thousand bike's just like theirs made that curve at the same speed without dragging jack, but this one lifts the back wheel off the ground. What? Were all those other people leaning more than him? No, they were steering more.

 

After riding for 45 years, it does not feel natural to use counter steering. I have to practice it every time I start out on a ride. When you have been "leaning" to initiate curves for so long, you develop a lot of skill at doing it the wrong way. Only practice-practice-practice works for me. That, and seeing my buddy in a wheel chair after a head-on. It doesn't matter how long you've been riding, experience will only reinforce your bad habits. Counter steering is not necessary--until your life is on the line.

 

Wow...I just don't know what to say

 

I too have been riding for 45 years and after reading this thread went out and evaluated what was happening when I initiate a turn. I either lean the bike or push the handlebars over to the side I am turning to, but, what surprised me was watching the handlebars twist ever so slightly in the opposite way I was turning. They do it automatically themselves. Further experimenting I pushed slightly on the left grip and the bike leaned and steered to the right. I never noticed before but I have always countersteered and didn't know it. Tony

 

This is the most educational thread I've read since I got my DELUXE 2 months ago.....

I did take the BASIC RIDERS COURSE not only to get my license endorsement but since I haven't been on a bike for 35 years I wanted to learn!

They taught "counter-steering" as previously stated, but I and several others in the class didn't understand it.
Unfortunetly, I didn't get enough time on the BUELL to practice counter-steering....
they did put us through the road course practicing, but it wasn't until I got on my own bike AFTER graduation that I was able to practice this maneuver.

I just decide that I'm gonna take a ride over to where the road course is (I'm hoping there's no class) and practice everything that they taught me, because now that I'm more comfy on my own bike I can take my time and practice whatever procedure I want, as many times as I like.

MANY THANKS for starting this thread.

If you guys can think of other topics us NEWBIES need, please start a new thread, this has been very informative!

 

Suffice it to say that if it was obvious, natural, everybody was doing it (without noticing it) then they wouldn't be teaching it in the MSF courses, now would they?

Count me among those who were attempting to steer into curves and turns and trying to muscle the machine into doing what I wanted it to do...someone tried to explain it to me and I couldn't get it. Finally....I did...and now I can't understand why I was being so thickheaded about it..it's really so simple!

 

I think that was in response to my post saying, pretty much, countersteering is a method of initiating a lean and not a way to steer around a curve.

 

Again, the bike won't lean over into a turn, at speed, unless you counter-steer. That's simply the physics of the situation. The bike wants to go straight, it won't turn unless you initiate the turn, and the ONLY way to initiate a turn at speed is to counter-steer. Whether you realize you are doing it or not.