Being on the East Coast and being a multiple service station owner(5) I'm going through the Ethanol change over in the next few weeks. It is actually better for your engines and burns cleaner and keeps your engine cleaner and has higher octane ratings than RFG gas made with MTBE. Read link attached.

http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/main/your_car.htm

 

What do you think the ethonal growers association is going to say about ethonal? We have had it in Wisconsin for some time now. All I can say is , do not put that crap in any 2-cycle motor it will ruin it . Also we are mandateded to use it in south eastern Wisconsin.How can a so called fuel help poloution if it takes more energy to produce it that it saves. You get less fuel mileage with it ,so you have to use more gas to get the same MPG. So you end up using more gasoline thanyou would if you would have used regular gasoline. How does that save on poloution ? Sorry rant is over.

 

Here in Illinois you would be hard pressed to find a fuel without ethanol in it. It is a lost cause, get used to it. Actually, as long as the fuel systems gaskets and seals are designed to handle ethanol, you should not do any harm to your engine. ( I am speaking as a mechanical engineer who has some understanding of these things.) What you will do though is use more fuel to go the same distance, and your engine will run even leaner than it would on pure gasoline. Whether Harley takes into account ethanol fuel/air ratios when designing an EFI map, I don't know. I hope they do.

Alcohol is a fine fuel, but it has some problems. First is that it burns with a fuel/air ratio of about 5:1 where gasoline burns at about 14:1. This is why your engine will see a leaner mixture. Your fuel system is putting too much air into the ethanol/gas mix if it is designed for gasoline only...UNLESS you have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust stream which will then change the fuel/air ratio to match the fuel. All modern cars have these, and so they will run just fine on 10% ethanol gas, although your milage will be reduced about 5%. Unfortunately, Harley has decided so far not to use an oxygen sensor. I suspect this is because they make a lot of money selling SERTs, and with an oxygen sensor feedback system, you don't need a SERT when you change things. Secondly, it is not a cheap fuel, and the only reason it is being used is because the taxes on ethanol are much lower than they are on gasoline. This keeps the farmers happy at the expense of the rest of us. Thirdly, chances are very good that it does indeed take more energy to produce ethanol than you get back when it is burned. Subsidies distort the economics.

Having said all that, if your machine runs OK with 10% ethanol, don't worry about using it, no harm will be done. Just get upset at our legislators and the environmentalists for being so stupid about fuels and economics.

 

Great thread. I'm wondering, if my engine is going to run leaner than it already is (2005 FLSTNI SE Stage One), could I offset the forced use of Ethonol by installing a DFO or TFI? Thanks in advance for any suggestions

 

There have been many problems in the marine industry with this fuel: 1) Fiberglass resins being dissovled by the ethonol, causing blown motors from the resin build up on the valves, which should not be a problem for bikes, unless somehow you have a fiberglass tank. 2) older gas lines, seal and such that are not made to handle the ethonol. 3) And speculation that the ethonol is cleaning old metal tanks, causing more particles in the fuel, hence filter clogs.

 

Using an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 for gasoline and 5:1 for ethanol, a gasohol mix of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, when used with the 14.7/1 air fuel ratio will be 6.8% lean. This 90/10 gasohol needs an air/fuel ratio of approximately 13.7 to 1 and you are fixed at 14.7. (these are just example numbers...the actual air/fuel ratio is all over the place depending on engine temperature, throttle position, intake manifold pressure, etc etc.)

So, if you had a SERT or a DFO or a TFI, you could just increase your fuel flow by 6.8% under all conditions and all would be well and you would be exactly where you were with pure gasoline. However, as one of my professors in college used to say, "The real world is non-linear" (nothing is exact and every situation is different) and so it is not a given that you will need to change your air/fuel ratio that much or even at all. If the machine runs well on gasohol without any changes, why bother making any changes? It could well be too rich already and the gasohol will just lean it out a little.

In the meantime, write a letter to the MOCO and ask them why an oxygen sensor is not part of the fuel management system already. If you had that, you would have nothing to worry about.

 

Thanks for reply.

 

I wouldnt put ethanol blended fuel in any small engine I own. All the hype about great things about ethanol is dreamed up by the National Corn Growers Association and other special interest groups who make $$ from ethanol being blended with gasoline. Once the tax breaks and money credits are over the ethanol industry will take a nose dive. If you want good gasoline without ethanol blend in it look for non-oxygenated gasoline. Should say right on the pump.

 

I got slammed about this subject a month or so back here on the forums,
I wont burn it at ALL as long as I can get fuel without it still. The HD bible says its ok to burn the eth 10% but stay away from Methanol altogether. But ethanol is the basic same stuff as methanol. Stuff eats up rubber seals, paint and metal except stainless steel. If you get overflow on your gas tank get it off with a cotton cloth asap as it will corrode the paint left to its devices.
The stuff isinsidious....

 

Stanford University just came out with a study that shows that ethanol pollutes about the same as gasoline. It just puts some different pollutants in the air. Biodiesel pollutes the air more than oil-based diesel.
The insistence on using these fuels is because politicians from both parties get huge campaign contributions from ADM, Cargill and ConAgra. In turn, those companies get huge tax breaks from........you and me!
If we ever were able to switch completely over to corn based fuel, we'd have to import far more corn than the oil we import now.
And for those that think corn growers are getting rich; corn is a little above $3 a bushel right now- same price it was 30 years ago. Been a little inflation since then too. Combines were $100K then, $250K now? something like that... All the higher price means is that the taxpayers don't have to subsidize farmers for now.
Oh, and we don't want lead back in the gas either. That was just a cheap and dirty-extremely dirty- way to raise the octane. The much more refined gasoline of today doesn't pollute the air and soil like it did, nor does it chew up and spit out spark plugs like leaded gas did.
One other thing. My '92 Evo with stock compression of 8.5:1 runs fine on 87 octane (85 at higher elevations). So does my 9:1 compression pickup and my 9:1 '69 Camaro.