Here's a link that shows the test results that Skip (pococj) got from an oil test comparing different oils ... HERE

Skip also said... "when I had several oils tested the Mobil 1 15w-50 car oil had less moly than the V-Twin version, and the HD Syn 3 had virtually no moly. Both of the M1 oils had more anti-wear additives than the HD Syn 3 stuff. And the M1 oils are true synthetics, while the HD stuff is hydro cracked.


With an explination of the different values shown below...

Got the results today. Pretty interesting if you're into this stuff. Here's a bit of a primer to explain what the different elements are for, and then the results. Since this forum's format doesn't seem to support tables, the results will be a bit difficult to read. I will e-mail the results as an attachment to anyone who e-mails me asking for them (pococj@aol.com). The attachment will be in Adobe PDF format. All values are ppm.

Anti-corrosion: Boron, sodium, zinc

Acid neutralizer, cleaning, & dispersants: Magnesium, calcium, boron (acid neutralizer)

Anti-foam: Silicon

Anti-wear: Phosphorus, zinc, molybdenum (friction modifier)


Mobil 1 15w-50 Extended Performance (replacement for "red cap) car oil

Si - 2 Na - 8 Mo - 79 Bo - 281 Ca - 2937 Mg - 17 P - 1223 Zn - 1376


Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50

Si - 4 Na - 9 Mo - 91 Bo - 255 Ca - 2648 Mg - 13 P - 1683 Zn - 1823


Harley Davidson Syn 3 20w-50

Si - 5 Na - 0 Mo - 1 Bo - 271 Ca - 1342 Mg - 740 P - 997 Zn - 1068


Mobil 1 MX4T 10w-40

Si - 2 Na - 6 Mo - 91 Bo - 248 Ca - 2483 Mg - 12 P - 1663 Zn - 1802


Look at the differences between the HD and V-Twin oils. The V-Twin has a lot more anti-wear components than the HD oil. Everything else pretty much equals out, though HD uses more Magnesium to make up for less Calcium as acid neutralizers. Looks like the V-Twin is the superior oil based on the additive package.

Now compare the V-Twin to the new Mobil 15w-50 car oil. Once again the V-Twin has more anti-wear additives. But the car oil has more acid neutralizers, indicating it could probably go longer between changes.

Something unusual showed up in the amounts of Molybdenum. Moly is a friction modifier, and too much of it could cause clutch slippage if used in an HD primary. Strangely, the V-twin shows more of it than the car oil, though it is recommended for primary use. The HD oil has essentially no moly, which goes with their recommendation of using it in the primary. Based on these analyses of the Mobil 1 oils, I would not have a problem using the car oil in my primary.

My conclusions? Mobil 1 V-Twin is the best of these oils. The slightly lower acid neutralizers than the car oil doesn't really matter if you change oil every 3000 miles. The HD oil is inferior in every respect that matters. You're paying the HD premium if you use it.

I've been using the Mobil 1 15w-50 "red cap" car oil for over 60k miles in my Evo Softail. I chose a synthetic oil for its ability to withstand the extremely high temperatures in Texas. The Mobil 1 car oil more than meets the requirements of an air-cooled HD engine, and is 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of the motorcycle oils. I'll switch to the new Mobil 1 15w-50 car oil for my engine, and will also use it in my primary. I'll continue to use a synthetic gear oil, 75w-90, either Castrol or Mobil 1, in my transmission.

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Most of the guys I know are running regular syntheticMobil 1 15W-50 in their bikes, and many of them have 80,000+ miles on the original engines. Many of them have well over 100,000 carefree miles.

And that is running in the lower midwest where we have extreme temperatures, with temperatures of 100 and higher in the summer months being common.

If you check out the "Oil Forum" (or whatever the name is) you will find threads where samples of both snythetic Mobil 1 V-Twin andsynthetic Mobil 1 !5W-50 were sent in for tests, and the properties aren't as different as many think.

Bottom line is, use whatever oil makes you happy, but as long as you perform regular maintenanceI doubt if your engine will care one way or the other as to what is being used..

In fact, over the years I don't know of anyone that has had major mechanical problems which were caused by a specific type of oil being used. Most mechanical problems are caused by either rider error or lack of regular preventive maintenance.

 

that nicely colored chart is useless. I don't know many people using 5w-30. Kinda light isn't it?
+1 for M1 products though.

 

the chart is only meant to show the diff. between flashpoint degrees C and degrees F.

 

ah, well I think it shows it nicely then.

 

I have a friend that has run Moble 1 oil in his 85 FLHTC with a sidecar since day one. Over 100,000 mi.and no problems as of yet!

 

Synthetic motor oil is far superior to dino oil:

Article Archives : Motor Oil
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Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It?
By Michael Kaufman
Thu, 29 May 2003, 22:09


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[*] Get AMSOIL for Your own Equipment Part 2: Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It?

First off, all oil breaks down. That generally will include basestocks and additives. Without focusing on performance characteristics, the most significant difference from one oil to another is how quickly breakdown occurs. Although there are many factors that contribute to the breakdown of an oil, heat is one of the most important. Depletion and decreased effectiveness of oil additives is also important, but that will be discussed later.

Petroleum oil begins to break-down almost immediately. A high quality synthetic, on the other hand, can last for many thousands of miles without any significant reduction in performance or protection characteristics. Synthetics designed from the right combination of basestocks and additives can last almost indefinitely with the right filtration system.

As alluded to above, the first major difference between petroleum and synthetic oil is heat tolerance. Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons.

The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 degrees F is the absolute MINIMUM to prevent possible high consumption.

Today's engines are expected to put out more power from a smaller size and with less oil than engines of the past. Therefore, the engines run much hotter than they used to. That puts an increased burden on the oil.

Even the best petroleum oils will have flash points only as high as 390 and 440 degrees F. Some actually have flashpoints as low as 350 degrees. For today's hot running engines, this is not nearly enough protection. Just about any synthetic you come across will have a flashpoint over 440 degrees. Premium synthetics can have flashpoints over 450 degrees with some even reaching as high as 500 degrees. That's a big difference.

As a result, I think that it's quite obvious that these high- tech oils offer a substantial benefit when it comes to potential breakdown due to burn-off. Nevertheless, even though synthetics are MUCH less prone to burn-off than are petroleum oils, there is still some burn-off during extremely high temperature operation.

Thus, it becomes important to discuss the manner in which petroleum and synthetic oils burn off. As a refined product, petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. Thus, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller, lighter molecules begin to burn off first.

Since the ash content in many petroleum oils is higher than synthetics, deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. Detergent and dispersant additives are used to keep these deposits to a minimum, but only so much can be done. Unless you're changing a petroleum oil every 2,000 to 3,000 miles some deposits are going to be left behind.

In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem.

Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the nearly the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind.

Moreover, many synthetics have very low ash content and little if any impurity. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there is little or no ash left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces. Obviously, this leads to a cleaner burning, more fuel efficient engine.

As a side note (as it really has little bearing on when to change your oil), synthetics do a much better job of "cooling" engine components during operation. Because of their unique flow characteristics, engine components are likely to run 10 to 30 degrees cooler than with petroleum oils. This is important, because the hotter the components in your engine get, the more quickly they break down.

WHAT ABOUT THE ARCTIC FREEZE?

This is an issue that some people really don't think about when it comes to oil changes. Most people understand that at cold temperatures, an oil tends to thicken up, and many people know that synthetics do a better job of staying fluid. However, many people don't realize why petroleum oils tend to thicken up. More importantly, though, they don't realize that this thickening process can wreak havoc on their oil.

You see, because most petroleum oils contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Therefore, in order to produce a petroleum oil that will perform adequately in severe cold temperatures, additives called pour point depressants must be used in high quantities. These additives are designed to keep the wax components of a petroleum oil from crystallizing. This maintains decent flow characteristics in cold weather for easier cold starts.

In areas where the temperature remains below zero for any period of time, these additives are used up very quickly because petroleum oils are so prone to wax crystallization. As a result, the oil begins to flow less easily in cold weather temperatures. Of course, the result is harder cold starts and tremendously increased engine wear. Thus, the oil must be changed in order to provide the cold weather engine protection which is necessary.

Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need NO pour point depressant additives. In addition, even without these additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. For instance, very few petroleum oils have pour points below -30 degrees F. Many synthetic oils, without any pour point depressants, have pour points below -50 degrees F. That's a big difference. There is, in fact, one oil on the market that has a pour point of -76 degrees F.

Since synthetics do not have any pour point depressants, there is no chance of these additives breaking down or being used up over time. There are no additives to break down. Therefore, synthetic oils maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a very long time. As a result, there is one less reason to change the oil if using synthetic as opposed to petroleum.

In addition, another part of cold weather driving that is extremely tough on an oil is condensation. Because it is so cold, it takes a fairly long drive to get the engine warm enough to burn off the condensation that occurs inside the engine. As a result, vehicles routinely driven short distances in cold weather will build up condensation within the oil. If left to do its dirty work, this water would cause acids to build up within the oil and corrosion would begin within your engine.

So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Generally, the TBN value of an oil will be a good determination of how well and for how long an oil will be able to combat these acids. Most petroleum oils have TBN numbers around 5. Most synthetics have TBN levels over 8 or 9. Premium synthetic oils (especially those designed specifically for extended oil drains) will have TBN numbers around 11 to 14. This allows for much better acid control for a much longer period of time, thus decreasing the need for an oil change due to cold temperature condensation.

---------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted with Permission from "The Motor Oil Bible" eBook Copyright 2000 Michael Kaufman ("The Motor Oil Bible" Author) Download it from: http://www.motor-oil-bible.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- Part 1 Are Oil Changes Really Necessary? - Part 3: What About Additive Depletion?


For more information on AMSOIL Synthetic motor oil products please visit this link below: Click here To Request a Free Amsoil Product Catalog







© Copyright 2006 by CarJunky®

Motor Oil

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Are Oil Changes Really Necessary? Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It? What About Additive Depletion? How Does Oil Contamination Occur? Engine Wear Particles Cause Oil Contamination Combustion By-Product Cause Engine Damage Efficient Oil Filtration Recommend Synthetic Oils Offer Greatly Extended Drains Very Few Companies Offer Extended Oil Drains



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F

 

Wow, another oil thread. Mobile one v-twin has additives for the clutch and primary specifically for motorcycles. Of course that makes no difference on a harley but it does if you have a bike that shares the oil with all three.

 

Special additives for the clutch and primary?

You can use just about anything in the clutch and primary as long it doesn't contain a high amount of 'friction modifiers' which might cause clutch problems at some point.

An fluid that has a listed rating of "JASO-MA" means the fluidcontain very little (if any)friction modifiers, and is perfectly safe to run in your wet clutch setup.

 

I think you guys spend too much time thinking about oil. I just get a full-synthetic with the right viscocity and put it in the bike. I got a got 5 quarts of Penzoil the other day for $17 from pep boys. If you buy that pyrmaid scheme oil you couldn't even gettwo quarts for that price. Buy a named brand full synthetic that has been certified and change your oil every 5000 miles.