Harley vs. Honda
#131
05-10-2006 | 05:33 PM
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 5
From: Dogtown, Oakland, CA
RE: Harley vs. Honda
ORIGINAL: Bigfoot
First and foremost - THANK YOU for serving. Second, I would never say that those who ride other bikes are not good AMericans, that is simply not true. My point was only that HD has done a great job a capturing that "feeling" - no one can really deny that, it is reflected in their sales, customer loyalty (how many people tatoo themselves with Harley?), and a feeling of freedom.
Wheter you buy into it or not is totally up to, but there is no denying a HUGE number of people do.
I am a car/bike nut to say the least. I bought a Corvette because it was Corvette (very similar though not as fantaical) The Harley is a quality machine, but without the feeling it invokes it would just be a bike (Like a Honda). If you do not get anything out of riding a Harley, or buying American then buy a Honda and save a few $$. This whole thing would make a fascinating psyc study!
ORIGINAL: dogtownmax
you cant buy patriotism, even from a harley store. lots of us who ride hondas, or other bikes, have served in our countrys armed forces and certainly do not lack pride.
buying an icon that "yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty" isnt the same as actually embodying those qualities, its just being a consumer. the people that i have met that most embody these qualities are actually the least likely to "yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty". weird, huh?
in my experience, the do-ers are not usually the yellers, and so i tend to be a little suspicious of people who are anxious to try to buy into something that requires what money cant buy.
ORIGINAL: Bigfoot
[..]
As riding is clearly an emotional thing, riding the American icon that yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty embodies that spirit.
Sure there are people who do not understand this and do not benefit from these thoughts, but they are also often people who lack that pride.
[..]
[..]
As riding is clearly an emotional thing, riding the American icon that yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty embodies that spirit.
Sure there are people who do not understand this and do not benefit from these thoughts, but they are also often people who lack that pride.
[..]
buying an icon that "yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty" isnt the same as actually embodying those qualities, its just being a consumer. the people that i have met that most embody these qualities are actually the least likely to "yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty". weird, huh?
in my experience, the do-ers are not usually the yellers, and so i tend to be a little suspicious of people who are anxious to try to buy into something that requires what money cant buy.
Wheter you buy into it or not is totally up to, but there is no denying a HUGE number of people do.
I am a car/bike nut to say the least. I bought a Corvette because it was Corvette (very similar though not as fantaical) The Harley is a quality machine, but without the feeling it invokes it would just be a bike (Like a Honda). If you do not get anything out of riding a Harley, or buying American then buy a Honda and save a few $$. This whole thing would make a fascinating psyc study!
#132
05-10-2006 | 08:29 PM
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
RE: Harley vs. Honda
I Got it now . Thanks bigfoot for the info.
ORIGINAL: Bigfoot
fu2 - I am new to the board but not to bikes. What you are asking is VERY difficult to quantify with words. First off, Honda makes a great motorcylce, I doubt anyone denies this. You can go out to your Honda, fire it up and drive away everytime - just like a Harley. So in the physical sense - sure, they are the same. Somehow, the marketing genius' (and this is TRUE GENIUS) at HD have engrained the "feeling" of freedom, patriotism, loyalty, and America onto their products. AMAZINGLY effective. Riding is an emotional thing, if it was not we would all be scooting around in Chevy Cavaliers and not risking life and limb to ride a scooter. As riding is clearly an emotional thing, riding the American icon that yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty embodies that spirit.
Sure there are people who do not understand this and do not benefit from these thoughts, but they are also often people who lack that pride.
My first bike was a Honda CB360, it was a lot of fun. This was in the 70's, I could not afford a Harley so I rodae what I could. Then I traded up (maybe more like over?) to a 1970 Norton 850 commando. WHat a hunk of junk! But when it ran and I did not need to use vice grips to operate the clutch, it was fun! Next I got a Kawasaki 750 Turbo, then a Yamaha Virago 1100, then a Suzuki Katana 1100, then a TRiumph Bonneville... I kept changing bikes, finally I went to a DC Police auction and bought a 1967 HD FLH wih a side car and rebulilt it. I FINALLY understood what it was all about. Prior to this, I had always thought "Eh whats the big deal about having an unreliable, slow oil leaker" I was not able to see beyond the bike as a mechanical means to go ride. The FLH was an inferrior bike to the others I had owned. It had a top speed of less than 65 mph with its three speed trans, it was like riding a giant marshmellow. I had never been happier on a bike. I rode that thing for years until I could swing a 2000 Fat Head Heritage Softtail Classic. I was in heavan! This bike was very powerful, very reliable and still had that same "feeling" my old FLH had.
I kept it until a bad incident led me to sell it. On a ride in the Blue Ridge Parkway with a large group of bikes, the ride leader lost it coming around a corner and slid into oncoming traffic and was killed by an oncoming car. He was a 20 year motorcylcle cop and knew how to ride. I decided to get out of bikes.
A few years later, here I am again - but the only bike I would even consider is another HD.
Hope this helps shed some light on why at least I will only ride a HD.
ORIGINAL: fu2
trning
I have to ask what makes it more fun when riding a HD? I think I am missing something. A friend of mine that has a wide glide told me that 2 weeks ago. We went on a 400-mile ride later that night we fired up the pit and was talking about the ride and how fun it was. Then he told me just think how much fun I would have had if I had a Harley. I did not get to ask him what he met by that when one if the wives told him that they was sure I had just as much fun on my Honda as that did. I have driven a wide glide, sportster & 2 Ultra Classic Electra Glides. I can say the belt drive is sweet! Over a shaft drive. I have had fun riding any bike I jump on as long as I get to burn A tank of gas.
Maybe it's different when you own a Harley. Enlighten me is it the brotherhood of knowing that you was surrounded by 70,000 people who liked and have the same brand bike as you. If that’s the case I think I under stand it give's ever one at the event something In common.
Just my opinion.
trning
I have to ask what makes it more fun when riding a HD? I think I am missing something. A friend of mine that has a wide glide told me that 2 weeks ago. We went on a 400-mile ride later that night we fired up the pit and was talking about the ride and how fun it was. Then he told me just think how much fun I would have had if I had a Harley. I did not get to ask him what he met by that when one if the wives told him that they was sure I had just as much fun on my Honda as that did. I have driven a wide glide, sportster & 2 Ultra Classic Electra Glides. I can say the belt drive is sweet! Over a shaft drive. I have had fun riding any bike I jump on as long as I get to burn A tank of gas.
Maybe it's different when you own a Harley. Enlighten me is it the brotherhood of knowing that you was surrounded by 70,000 people who liked and have the same brand bike as you. If that’s the case I think I under stand it give's ever one at the event something In common.Just my opinion.
fu2 - I am new to the board but not to bikes. What you are asking is VERY difficult to quantify with words. First off, Honda makes a great motorcylce, I doubt anyone denies this. You can go out to your Honda, fire it up and drive away everytime - just like a Harley. So in the physical sense - sure, they are the same. Somehow, the marketing genius' (and this is TRUE GENIUS) at HD have engrained the "feeling" of freedom, patriotism, loyalty, and America onto their products. AMAZINGLY effective. Riding is an emotional thing, if it was not we would all be scooting around in Chevy Cavaliers and not risking life and limb to ride a scooter. As riding is clearly an emotional thing, riding the American icon that yells of the ideas of America, freedom, and loyalty embodies that spirit.
Sure there are people who do not understand this and do not benefit from these thoughts, but they are also often people who lack that pride.
My first bike was a Honda CB360, it was a lot of fun. This was in the 70's, I could not afford a Harley so I rodae what I could. Then I traded up (maybe more like over?) to a 1970 Norton 850 commando. WHat a hunk of junk! But when it ran and I did not need to use vice grips to operate the clutch, it was fun! Next I got a Kawasaki 750 Turbo, then a Yamaha Virago 1100, then a Suzuki Katana 1100, then a TRiumph Bonneville... I kept changing bikes, finally I went to a DC Police auction and bought a 1967 HD FLH wih a side car and rebulilt it. I FINALLY understood what it was all about. Prior to this, I had always thought "Eh whats the big deal about having an unreliable, slow oil leaker" I was not able to see beyond the bike as a mechanical means to go ride. The FLH was an inferrior bike to the others I had owned. It had a top speed of less than 65 mph with its three speed trans, it was like riding a giant marshmellow. I had never been happier on a bike. I rode that thing for years until I could swing a 2000 Fat Head Heritage Softtail Classic. I was in heavan! This bike was very powerful, very reliable and still had that same "feeling" my old FLH had.
I kept it until a bad incident led me to sell it. On a ride in the Blue Ridge Parkway with a large group of bikes, the ride leader lost it coming around a corner and slid into oncoming traffic and was killed by an oncoming car. He was a 20 year motorcylcle cop and knew how to ride. I decided to get out of bikes.
A few years later, here I am again - but the only bike I would even consider is another HD.
Hope this helps shed some light on why at least I will only ride a HD.
#133
06-08-2006 | 12:34 AM
Road Captain
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
From: Fairfax, Virginia
RE: Harley vs. Honda
I recently purchased an 06 EGS and if truth be told, it was well worth it. I owned an 02 VTX 1800 and can honestly say it's a good bike, but it's not a Harley. The fit and finish is good but not as good as a HD. The Honda has loads of power but steers like a ship at low speeds. It also has a higher center of gravity than my EGS, so it feels much heavier even though both bikes weigh the same. Someone mentioned earlier that riding metric cruisers for long hauls makes you feel like your a$$ just got kicked. They're not kidding. A 3 hr ride to the beach wiped me out. Can't say that about my HD. If you're looking for a good 1/4 mile bike, then get the Honda. If looking for a motorcyle, HD is the way to go; you will not be disappointed. If you're still not convinced, look at the resale values of metric. If that doesn't send you running for a HD, then I don't know what else to tell you. GOOD LUCK![sm=closed.gif]
#134
06-08-2006 | 12:54 AM
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley vs. Honda
Resale is without question better with a Harley but I don't think it is anywhere what it was a few years ago. Case in point. I have a friend with a 06 Street Glide. He has about $24,000 in this bike and just this Saturday he went to see about tradeing it. He was offered $14,000!! This bike is super sharp with less than 5,000 miles on it. He was offered this at a Victory dealer so you would expect them to maybe a a bit lower than a Harley dealer but not all that much. He knows he could sell it himself for more but not close to what he has in it.
#136
06-08-2006 | 03:32 AM
Cruiser
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley vs. Honda
Actually resale is only valid is you didn't get over charged for the bike in the 1st place. For example ... if you pay 4 grand OVER list for a bike (16 grand Harley for 20 grand) and sell it in two years for 14 grand you took 30% loss. If you buy a bike for 12 grand (metric) and sell it two years later for 8 grand you take a 32% loss ... very little difference. Then again if you buy a 16 grand Harley for 16 grand and trade it in two years later for 14 grand you take a 12.5% loss. Now THAT'S a good resale price. So my point is Harleys DO retain their value BUT if the dealer over charged you THAT comparison becomes Null and Void. (I HOPE I didn't screw up on my math!) ................... I think the biggest difference between a Honda and Harley is how WE look at them. As someone has said, very few people DREAM of owning a Honda and you don't see many Honda tattoos out there. Are Honda's good rides ... I think they are, they're bullet proof, but they aren't and never will be the objects of desire that Harley's are.
ORIGINAL: GaryWayne
Resale is without question better with a Harley but I don't think it is anywhere what it was a few years ago. Case in point. I have a friend with a 06 Street Glide. He has about $24,000 in this bike and just this Saturday he went to see about tradeing it. He was offered $14,000!! This bike is super sharp with less than 5,000 miles on it. He was offered this at a Victory dealer so you would expect them to maybe a a bit lower than a Harley dealer but not all that much. He knows he could sell it himself for more but not close to what he has in it.
Resale is without question better with a Harley but I don't think it is anywhere what it was a few years ago. Case in point. I have a friend with a 06 Street Glide. He has about $24,000 in this bike and just this Saturday he went to see about tradeing it. He was offered $14,000!! This bike is super sharp with less than 5,000 miles on it. He was offered this at a Victory dealer so you would expect them to maybe a a bit lower than a Harley dealer but not all that much. He knows he could sell it himself for more but not close to what he has in it.
#137
06-08-2006 | 10:19 AM
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley vs. Honda
That is true but this guy paid MARP for his (he's just put alot of money into it with upgrades). the bike is less than 6 months old and that is all they offered him. Again a bit low because of being a Victory dealer but I don't expect a Harley dealer would be alot higher. By far his best bet is to sell it himself. A dealer for the most part will give him very little for all the upgraqdes but a private buyer might.
#138
06-08-2006 | 08:33 PM
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
RE: Harley vs. Honda
Duh! You take a Harley to a Victory dealer and expect retail for trade in? People just keep coming up with stupid reasons to justify whatever they bought. Sell the Harley on the open market to get true value. Anybody stupid enough to pour $5000 into a bike and then turn it in a few months is going to take a bath, no matter what kind of bike they buy. Examining the actions of stupid people does not equate to useful knowledge in the world. You can pour unlimited $$ into upgrades on any vehicle. You will never get it out at resale. No Harley dealer I have heard of is selling at MSRP plus anymore except Las Vegas HD. I don't know what motivates anyone to buy from them. I have never heard of anybody paying $4000 over retail, ever. Even at the height of the boom a couple years ago. If anybody did, see the stupid people section of my post above.
You can usually buy a Honda or any other Japanese bike at the end of the model year for a couple grand below MSRP. Go ahead and Fu!@#$ do it if it makes you happy. Ditto for a Victory, Triumph, or almost any other bike. You can probably get a Sporty or a V-rod with a similar discount. Do what makes you happy. Just stop using bogus numbers and idiotic examples to prove why (insert import bike of choice here) is better than a Harley. Geez.
You can usually buy a Honda or any other Japanese bike at the end of the model year for a couple grand below MSRP. Go ahead and Fu!@#$ do it if it makes you happy. Ditto for a Victory, Triumph, or almost any other bike. You can probably get a Sporty or a V-rod with a similar discount. Do what makes you happy. Just stop using bogus numbers and idiotic examples to prove why (insert import bike of choice here) is better than a Harley. Geez.
#139
06-09-2006 | 12:07 AM
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley vs. Honda
Duh! You take a Harley to a Victory dealer and expect retail for trade in? People just keep coming up with stupid reasons to justify whatever they bought. Sell the Harley on the open market to get true value. Anybody stupid enough to pour $5000 into a bike and then turn it in a few months is going to take a bath, no matter what kind of bike they buy. Examining the actions of stupid people does not equate to useful knowledge in the world. You can pour unlimited $$ into upgrades on any vehicle. You will never get it out at resale. No Harley dealer I have heard of is selling at MSRP plus anymore except Las Vegas HD. I don't know what motivates anyone to buy from them. I have never heard of anybody paying $4000 over retail, ever. Even at the height of the boom a couple years ago. If anybody did, see the stupid people section of my post above.
You can usually buy a Honda or any other Japanese bike at the end of the model year for a couple grand below MSRP. Go ahead and Fu!@#$ do it if it makes you happy. Ditto for a Victory, Triumph, or almost any other bike. You can probably get a Sporty or a V-rod with a similar discount. Do what makes you happy. Just stop using bogus numbers and idiotic examples to prove why (insert import bike of choice here) is better than a Harley. Geez.
I don't want to sound like a smart *** but just where did you come up with all this? I said it was a Victory dealer so the price was a bit low. I said he had put alot in upgrades that a dealer would never give him. I didn't use a 'bogus number' that is what he was quoted Saturday. I said he would be better off selling it himself and nowhere did I mention another brand or in anyway compare this to any other bike.
You can usually buy a Honda or any other Japanese bike at the end of the model year for a couple grand below MSRP. Go ahead and Fu!@#$ do it if it makes you happy. Ditto for a Victory, Triumph, or almost any other bike. You can probably get a Sporty or a V-rod with a similar discount. Do what makes you happy. Just stop using bogus numbers and idiotic examples to prove why (insert import bike of choice here) is better than a Harley. Geez.
I don't want to sound like a smart *** but just where did you come up with all this? I said it was a Victory dealer so the price was a bit low. I said he had put alot in upgrades that a dealer would never give him. I didn't use a 'bogus number' that is what he was quoted Saturday. I said he would be better off selling it himself and nowhere did I mention another brand or in anyway compare this to any other bike.
#140
06-09-2006 | 02:33 AM
Cruiser
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley vs. Honda
Moosemeat ... I don't think anyone in this forum is trying to say Honda is better than Harley, I'm sure not. AND you're SURE not going to find that attitude in THIS forum. All "I'M saying is when a person makes claims like the ones refering to resale value it's all relative to the initial cost. In MY opinion the only important factor to take into account when you're deciding which is BETTER is which is BETTER for YOU! You don't need a reason more than "It's my choice." When people $hit on Harley's for what ever reason it makes me think these people are small minded ... and when people $hit on any other type of bike, metric or British I think the same of them. Ride what you love and love what you ride. In the case of this forum we're all Harley lovers or we wouldn't be here.
ORIGINAL: Moosemeat
Duh! You take a Harley to a Victory dealer and expect retail for trade in? People just keep coming up with stupid reasons to justify whatever they bought. Sell the Harley on the open market to get true value. Anybody stupid enough to pour $5000 into a bike and then turn it in a few months is going to take a bath, no matter what kind of bike they buy. Examining the actions of stupid people does not equate to useful knowledge in the world. You can pour unlimited $$ into upgrades on any vehicle. You will never get it out at resale. No Harley dealer I have heard of is selling at MSRP plus anymore except Las Vegas HD. I don't know what motivates anyone to buy from them. I have never heard of anybody paying $4000 over retail, ever. Even at the height of the boom a couple years ago. If anybody did, see the stupid people section of my post above.
You can usually buy a Honda or any other Japanese bike at the end of the model year for a couple grand below MSRP. Go ahead and Fu!@#$ do it if it makes you happy. Ditto for a Victory, Triumph, or almost any other bike. You can probably get a Sporty or a V-rod with a similar discount. Do what makes you happy. Just stop using bogus numbers and idiotic examples to prove why (insert import bike of choice here) is better than a Harley. Geez.
Duh! You take a Harley to a Victory dealer and expect retail for trade in? People just keep coming up with stupid reasons to justify whatever they bought. Sell the Harley on the open market to get true value. Anybody stupid enough to pour $5000 into a bike and then turn it in a few months is going to take a bath, no matter what kind of bike they buy. Examining the actions of stupid people does not equate to useful knowledge in the world. You can pour unlimited $$ into upgrades on any vehicle. You will never get it out at resale. No Harley dealer I have heard of is selling at MSRP plus anymore except Las Vegas HD. I don't know what motivates anyone to buy from them. I have never heard of anybody paying $4000 over retail, ever. Even at the height of the boom a couple years ago. If anybody did, see the stupid people section of my post above.
You can usually buy a Honda or any other Japanese bike at the end of the model year for a couple grand below MSRP. Go ahead and Fu!@#$ do it if it makes you happy. Ditto for a Victory, Triumph, or almost any other bike. You can probably get a Sporty or a V-rod with a similar discount. Do what makes you happy. Just stop using bogus numbers and idiotic examples to prove why (insert import bike of choice here) is better than a Harley. Geez.